|
|
Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jul 10, 2023 12:37:01 GMT
 VS  |
|
|
|
Post by Bolushi on Jul 10, 2023 12:47:39 GMT
The leopards that coexist with brown hyenas want nothing to do with them, and I think a leopardess would lose. However a male leopard would win. Irrespective of the brown hyena's gender.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bolushi on Jul 10, 2023 12:49:29 GMT
An interaction -
|
|
|
|
Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jul 10, 2023 13:14:57 GMT
The Kalahari Desert is one place where these guys frequently meet. I don’t have any info on the weights of either animal in that particular area of Africa (if you do, please share), but I don’t really think I'm all too concerned about the weights. I'm more interested in how leopards react to these guys, and what conclusions can be drawn from how that. One thing I do know for sure is that leopards FEAR them! They really do, like serious morbid fear. And the account below proves that. It contains 2 cases of FEMALE brown hyenas named "Star" and "Shadow" by the explorers, totally dominating a MALE leopard they had named the "Pink Panther" (it was referred to as "he"). Whenever the hyena moved toward the leopard, it ALWAYS ran up a tree. In the second one, it tried to stand its ground for a sec, but apparently it was all just bluffing and it ran away again:     Taken From: Cry of the Kalahari: archive.org/details/cryofkalahari00owen (Pages 132-135) The account in page 135 even states that it's far too dangerous for a leopard to fight a brown hyena and even said that one bite is enough to sever the cat's leg or even kill it. This sort of implies that the brown hyena would be the victor in a death fight more often than not. It also said the hyena can tank just about anything the leopard can dish out. So... not looking very good for the leopard. Obviously, we know that at max weights of both species, the leopard stomps. That would be a close to 100 kg leopard, and obviously, brown hyenas don't get close to that weight, only a spotted hyena would have a chance out of all the hyenas if a Persian/Congolese/Sri Lankan leopard was being used. I'm talking about the 2 species in the Kalahari, like "typical Kalahari Desert leopard vs typical Kalahari Desert brown hyena" and other African leopards similar in size. Thoughts everyone? Hardcastle, Bolushi, lincoln, grippingwhiteness, @germanrockethunter, CoolJohnson |
|
|
|
Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jul 10, 2023 13:16:48 GMT
Bolushi , even for the male, I'm not 100% sure as evidenced by the interaction above.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 13:33:51 GMT
A male would win.
|
|
|
|
Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jul 10, 2023 13:39:42 GMT
@ling
It would depend on the masses of both combatants, and as we've seen, even a male leopard isn’t comfortable with the idea of fighting a brown hyena.
I do agree a male leopard can win, but dismissing any chance whatsoever for the hyena, I'm not so sure that's true. The leopard actually disagrees with that. Remember that I'm talking about these 2 carnivores in the Kalahari Desert specifically.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bolushi on Jul 10, 2023 18:08:01 GMT
Leopards do poorly with tanky animals, brown hyenas being in that category. However, a prime male leopard is a bit larger by 20lbs+
A brown hyena could be held at bay with a male leopard's hands long enough for the leopard to manipulate the hyena into more favorable positions. The hyena has no issues at all taking some paw swipes and bites from a defensive leopard, it routinely endures such attacks when it steals leopard kills. A fight to the death is where a male leopard would use its greater strength and superior grappling ability (due to being bigger- hyena is better at parity) to eventually grind out a victory. Mangled and tore up, but male leopard wins.
Brown hyena dominance over either gender of leopard is certain. They have good fighting qualities, high durability and are happy to take some damage in stride. Leopards are the exact opposite, a leopard hates animals that behaves that way. Dominant male leopards won't always give way to brown hyenas though, like here -
The hyena charged, leopard didn't budge, so the hyena swung its head to the side and tried to sweep the leopard away, mouth open. The leopard didn't want to leave its kill, so it decided to bite the hyena before vice versa and they briefly begin fighting before the leopard nor hyena want anything to do with the situation. So the hyena leaves.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bolushi on Jul 10, 2023 18:12:40 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by lincoln on Jul 10, 2023 18:14:57 GMT
The Kalahari Desert is one place where these guys frequently meet. I don’t have any info on the weights of either animal in that particular area of Africa (if you do, please share), but I don’t really think I'm all too concerned about the weights. I'm more interested in how leopards react to these guys, and what conclusions can be drawn from how that. One thing I do know for sure is that leopards FEAR them! They really do, like serious morbid fear. And the account below proves that. It contains 2 cases of FEMALE brown hyenas named "Star" and "Shadow" by the explorers, totally dominating a MALE leopard they had named the "Pink Panther" (it was referred to as "he"). Whenever the hyena moved toward the leopard, it ALWAYS ran up a tree. In the second one, it tried to stand its ground for a sec, but apparently it was all just bluffing and it ran away again: Taken From: Cry of the Kalahari: archive.org/details/cryofkalahari00owen (Pages 132-135) The account in page 135 even states that it's far too dangerous for a leopard to fight a brown hyena and even said that one bite is enough to sever the cat's leg or even kill it. This sort of implies that the brown hyena would be the victor in a death fight more often than not. It also said the hyena can tank just about anything the leopard can dish out. So... not looking very good for the leopard. Obviously, we know that at max weights of both species, the leopard stomps. That would be a close to 100 kg leopard, and obviously, brown hyenas don't get close to that weight, only a spotted hyena would have a chance out of all the hyenas if a Persian/Congolese/Sri Lankan leopard was being used. I'm talking about the 2 species in the Kalahari, like "typical Kalahari Desert leopard vs typical Kalahari Desert brown hyena" and other African leopards similar in size. Thoughts everyone? Hardcastle , Bolushi , lincoln , grippingwhiteness , @germanrockethunter, CoolJohnson I think this is more like the leopard avoiding combat then just straight up fear, sometimes African leopards run from spotted hyenas, like it says, hyenas are more bold. They even said if the leopard pounced it could tear up the hyena |
|
|
|
Post by Bolushi on Jul 10, 2023 18:23:08 GMT
The Kalahari Desert is one place where these guys frequently meet. I don’t have any info on the weights of either animal in that particular area of Africa (if you do, please share), but I don’t really think I'm all too concerned about the weights. I'm more interested in how leopards react to these guys, and what conclusions can be drawn from how that. One thing I do know for sure is that leopards FEAR them! They really do, like serious morbid fear. And the account below proves that. It contains 2 cases of FEMALE brown hyenas named "Star" and "Shadow" by the explorers, totally dominating a MALE leopard they had named the "Pink Panther" (it was referred to as "he"). Whenever the hyena moved toward the leopard, it ALWAYS ran up a tree. In the second one, it tried to stand its ground for a sec, but apparently it was all just bluffing and it ran away again: Taken From: Cry of the Kalahari: archive.org/details/cryofkalahari00owen (Pages 132-135) The account in page 135 even states that it's far too dangerous for a leopard to fight a brown hyena and even said that one bite is enough to sever the cat's leg or even kill it. This sort of implies that the brown hyena would be the victor in a death fight more often than not. It also said the hyena can tank just about anything the leopard can dish out. So... not looking very good for the leopard. Obviously, we know that at max weights of both species, the leopard stomps. That would be a close to 100 kg leopard, and obviously, brown hyenas don't get close to that weight, only a spotted hyena would have a chance out of all the hyenas if a Persian/Congolese/Sri Lankan leopard was being used. I'm talking about the 2 species in the Kalahari, like "typical Kalahari Desert leopard vs typical Kalahari Desert brown hyena" and other African leopards similar in size. Thoughts everyone? Hardcastle , Bolushi , lincoln , grippingwhiteness , @germanrockethunter, CoolJohnson I think this is more like the leopard avoiding combat then just straight up fear, sometimes African leopards run from spotted hyenas, like it says, hyenas are more bold. They even said if the leopard pounced it could tear up the hyena Why would a leopard give up dinner for any reason other than fear? That could've been said about the bullying leopards endure, but actual usurping of kills is definitely significant since there's very valid cause to fight and the leopard wouldn't do it. |
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Jul 10, 2023 18:27:39 GMT
I'm starting to accept that a fully mature male leopard with a bad attitude is basically a totally different animal entirely to other leopards.
Generally speaking I think brown, striped and spotted hyena all- pretty much equally, and fairly easily- bully and displace leopards, BUT the exception is an experienced mature male with a bad attitude. They often develop a certain macho confidence that is very contrary to how leopards generally behave. These leopards are spaced out like feudal "lords" and most leopards a hyena will encounter won't be one of those. So you can see even in that video the brown hyena had no doubt whatsoever the leopard would just flee like normal, it had full unquestioning confidence, and then it was surprised when the leopard didn't budge and fought back. Usually that works for brown and striped and spotted hyenas, and they usually just take kills off leopards with no resistance.
Again, macho mature males are kind of their own thing. It is interesting to note that hunters in the 1800s were genuinely confused and really did think they were a different animal. A more "rare", much larger and much more dangerous animal than a mere "leopard", which they considered barely worth talking about. Somewhere between leopard and tiger, and in some ways more nasty than tigers, is a common testimony you get from explorers and hunters in colonial times.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hardcastle on Jul 10, 2023 18:29:34 GMT
However, when they DO run and "avoid combat", that is straight up fear.
The fact the macho mature males don't only cements that fact more clearly, because they have just as much reason to "wisely avoid combat". The difference is they back themselves and have the confidence to not be fearful.
|
|
|
|
Post by lincoln on Jul 11, 2023 3:30:26 GMT
However, when they DO run and "avoid combat", that is straight up fear. The fact the macho mature males don't only cements that fact more clearly, because they have just as much reason to "wisely avoid combat". The difference is they back themselves and have the confidence to not be fearful. But SC said that they fear brown Hyenas specifically, I think it’s avoiding combat because of fear of injury in general and not being afraid of the brown hyenas specifically because they the leopard’s worst nightmare |
|
|
|
Post by Bolushi on Jul 11, 2023 10:40:10 GMT
However, when they DO run and "avoid combat", that is straight up fear. The fact the macho mature males don't only cements that fact more clearly, because they have just as much reason to "wisely avoid combat". The difference is they back themselves and have the confidence to not be fearful. But SC said that they fear brown Hyenas specifically, I think it’s avoiding combat because of fear of injury in general and not being afraid of the brown hyenas specifically because they the leopard’s worst nightmare Weird argument, TBH. "Yeah they run terrified from brown hyenas but also y'know, sloth bears, tigers, lions, spotted hyenas, striped hyenas, dogs, baboons, warthogs, bushpigs, boars, nile crocodiles, indians etc. etc., so it's not just brown hyenas being tough like that..." I don't think he was saying brown hyenas are a dark unholy force to leopards compared to everything else. Just firmly under the list of animals leopards have demonstrated trouble with. |
|
