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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2023 11:25:02 GMT
I mean sometimes leopards can subdue and kill aggressive hyenas that are trying to steal its carcass.   |
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Post by Bolushi on Jul 11, 2023 11:32:37 GMT
I mean sometimes leopards can subdue and kill aggressive hyenas that are trying to steal its carcass. Yes. And then try to kill them and fail to do so for so long the hyena just feels bad so it stops pretending its dead and walks away. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2023 11:35:55 GMT
I mean sometimes leopards can subdue and kill aggressive hyenas that are trying to steal its carcass. Yes. And then try to kill them and fail to do so for so long the hyena just feels bad so it stops pretending its dead and walks away. It states that "the leopard let the hyena go", it easily could have killed it. Especially in that position. This is one of those large males that Hardcastle was talking about, I forgot his name, I think it's like "Nihaullhi" or something.  |
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Post by Bolushi on Jul 11, 2023 11:37:14 GMT
Yes. And then try to kill them and fail to do so for so long the hyena just feels bad so it stops pretending its dead and walks away. It states that "the leopard let the hyena go", it easily could have killed. Especially in that position. This is one of those large males that Hardcastle was talking about, I forgot his name, I think it's like "Nihaulhi" or something. Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk Yes, that's the goal when you play dead. You want the thing attacking you to stop. Assisted suicide doesn't exist in the natural world, Ling. That was reportedly a young hyena BTW. |
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Post by lincoln on Jul 11, 2023 19:05:15 GMT
If male leopard doesn’t run then it wins
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jul 14, 2023 11:38:19 GMT
lincoln My apologies if I miscommunicated. I didn't mean that they have a special fear for hyenas that was different from what they have for other animals. What I meant was that brown hyenas are one animal that they react fearfully to, almost the same way they do with lions. Not the same way as with lions, obviously, but like when a brown hyena shows up, they typically don't want to hang around, but just leave, much the same way cougars flee/tremble at the sight of bears.
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Post by oldgreengrolar on Jul 16, 2023 5:26:54 GMT
That leopard is Hlarulini male, the largest male spotted in Malamala. Sadly he was last seen after he was spotted injured.
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Post by grippingwhiteness on Jul 17, 2023 6:44:12 GMT
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Post by grippingwhiteness on Jul 17, 2023 6:45:43 GMT
I mean sometimes leopards can subdue and kill aggressive hyenas that are trying to steal its carcass. Yes. And then try to kill them and fail to do so for so long the hyena just feels bad so it stops pretending its dead and walks away. Hyenas don't play dead, they are not this smart 😂 |
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Post by Bolushi on Jul 17, 2023 6:51:13 GMT
Yes. And then try to kill them and fail to do so for so long the hyena just feels bad so it stops pretending its dead and walks away. Hyenas don't play dead, they are not this smart 😂 It's instinctual for some animals. Even iguanas do it, I've also seen ants do it but I'm not sure how valid that is. I saw a gray fox do it, and you did too, right? It was all on video. Considering hyenas are all defense, it's reasonable they'd have that ability up their sleeve for when something goes horribly wrong. Also hyenas have scored very very high in intelligence tests and outperformed chimps in some areas... but that's dubious IMO. It's a hyena, can't be too smart can it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2023 11:03:37 GMT
Hyenas don't play dead, they are not this smart 😂 It's instinctual for some animals. Even iguanas do it, I've also seen ants do it but I'm not sure how valid that is. I saw a gray fox do it, and you did too, right? It was all on video. Considering hyenas are all defense, it's reasonable they'd have that ability up their sleeve for when something goes horribly wrong. Also hyenas have scored very very high in intelligence tests and outperformed chimps in some areas... but that's dubious IMO. It's a hyena, can't be too smart can it? Bolushi is right. In certain situations, hyenas may employ a defensive strategy known as tonic immobility, which is characterized by remaining motionless, usually lying on their sides and closing their eyes, to appear as if they have died. This helps to decieve/deteriorate predators. |
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Post by grippingwhiteness on Jul 17, 2023 12:12:09 GMT
I strongly not believe that the hyena there played dead,either way it got subdued by the leopard that was also larger in size (allegedly reported to be 165 lb male, that hyena which looks like a male was probably 120 lbish).
Male leopards at 130-150 lbs are already too powerful and formidable, given the occasion, for almost any Carnivora their size or smaller, with the exception only on spotted hyenas , cougars (although at parity I may favour slightly the leopard for its proportionally larger skull and neck) and jaguars.
Some gripping dogs would give a very good performance - but probably only as with not backing off while getting ripped apart - as they'd get either out frightfully injured or dead since their offensive weapons kinda suck (while they'd work at parity with 60-80 lb smallish leopards, as cats decrease in strength as they decrease by size and the opposite for dogs, they increase in strength as they decrease by size).
Which IS acknowledged by that instance where a Bully Kutta failed to dominate a potentially smaller leopard despite the leopard wasn't the one "dominating" the fight and turned into a defensive prolonged fight, where no leopard wants to be, which still got the dog killed by the cat as result.
That said I won't see a brown hyena performing well here, if the Leopard is a male.
While we have only a handful confirmed account of male leopards subduing or even killing adult spotted hyenas(Although the sex of the hyena isn't specified), what has a smaller brown hyena have over a spotted hyena to fair better?
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Post by grippingwhiteness on Jul 17, 2023 14:13:05 GMT
I'm starting to accept that a fully mature male leopard with a bad attitude is basically a totally different animal entirely to other leopards. Generally speaking I think brown, striped and spotted hyena all- pretty much equally, and fairly easily- bully and displace leopards, BUT the exception is an experienced mature male with a bad attitude. They often develop a certain macho confidence that is very contrary to how leopards generally behave. These leopards are spaced out like feudal "lords" and most leopards a hyena will encounter won't be one of those. So you can see even in that video the brown hyena had no doubt whatsoever the leopard would just flee like normal, it had full unquestioning confidence, and then it was surprised when the leopard didn't budge and fought back. Usually that works for brown and striped and spotted hyenas, and they usually just take kills off leopards with no resistance. Again, macho mature males are kind of their own thing. It is interesting to note that hunters in the 1800s were genuinely confused and really did think they were a different animal. A more "rare", much larger and much more dangerous animal than a mere "leopard", which they considered barely worth talking about. Somewhere between leopard and tiger, and in some ways more nasty than tigers, is a common testimony you get from explorers and hunters in colonial times. That's very interesting, could you share more details about these stories of hunters? By the way the macho attitude isn't related to size at all actually, it's related to the individual animal, any cornered leopard with no other choice will turn out extremely aggressive and will fight back for its defence. Some, as already specified, would even turn on the offense and probably even start the fight.
In my opinion these are by far the most badass ones for now, at least for what I've seen and read around now (could even add that cape leopard fighting 1v3 catchdogs his size or maybe even larger for as long as 1 hour and half and almost mortally injuring one)
This one is a feat of actual aggressiveness, and this leopard surely is no self-preservation master like most leopards that after hearing such gunshots would have ran for their lives in the nearest den or tree.
This one is, instead, a show of both aggressiveness and resistance. This leopard took a magnum round straight to the chest and was shot already more than once before attacking back, this didn't even slow it down from attacking and mauling the hunter, where it was shot again and this time it died instantly.
For the matter these are no large leopards, the first one looks to be a normal sized male of 130-140 lbs, the second one looks even smaller and around 100-110 lbs, but the hunter is kinda fat and probably 190+lbs so who knows how to compare the size of the cat related to the man.
Here's another pretty old account, famous on wildfact, and this time it's the turn of a large leopard of 189 lbs or 85 kg. In case you haven't seen this yet apparently this leopard was also hit more than once but he was still able to sneak on and attack even hours after being shot the first time, a very interesting feat of resistance:
"Few people survive a leopard attack and get a chance to tell their story.
To the well-known Onderberg farmer, mr. Danie van Graan, it is pure grace that he escaped from the animal's claws last week, hours after the same leopard killed his adoptive son . Yesterday morning Van Graan, who for Mr. Mageka Ntuli, 30, had to bury, talking to Laevelder about exactly what happened last Monday in the mountains near Kaapmuiden.
In the morning Ntuli went to the field to shoot an impala. It is thought that the leopard was hiding in a hole in the hill at which Ntuli climbed. He was attacked here. He fired two shots with his hunting rifle and then fired it with the handgun. Ntuli was able to scare the animal, but he was seriously injured. A passerby heard him scream and saw the leopard lying in the grass nearby. The man counted Ntuli on his back and carried him to his (Ntuli) bakkie. The benefactor then rushed with him to the Kaapmuiden clinic and was taken by ambulance to Rob Ferreira Hospital.
Meanwhile, Van Graan heard about the incident and returned to the scene with the benefactor. “I looked into the hole where the leopard was spotted and the next moment the beast jumped at me. The animal was only about 12 inches from the gun barrel when I pulled the trigger. "
The 85kg leopard was hit in the chest and landed on top of Van Graan. At that moment, he was just glad he survived. He was under the impression that Ntuli was badly injured, but not necessarily in danger. He was taken to hospital early on Tuesday where a further shock awaited him. Here he still found Ntuli in the casualty department where he was being convicted. The young man also stopped breathing and there were indications that he may have suffered head injuries. Van Graan immediately began to apply mouth-to-mouth breathing and then "began to jump around staff to help". By this time, Ntuli no longer recognized him at all and was transferred to the intensive care unit. He passed away Wednesday morning. An emotional Van Graan said yesterday. "" I lost a wonderful person. "He raised Ntuli from a young age. He was a professional hunter who ran the Emonyeni Lodge (which previously belonged to Van Graan) and hunted his safaris. "He was very good with people and very loved, especially among our overseas clients." The leopard's carcass was taken to Mpumalanga Park Board to conduct tests to determine if it did not have rabies. Apparently, it is not in the nature of these animals to attack humans."
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Post by Bolushi on Jul 17, 2023 16:49:11 GMT
I strongly not believe that the hyena there played dead,either way it got subdued by the leopard that was also larger in size (allegedly reported to be 165 lb male, that hyena which looks like a male was probably 120 lbish). Male leopards at 130-150 lbs are already too powerful and formidable, given the occasion, for almost any Carnivora their size or smaller, with the exception only on spotted hyenas , cougars (although at parity I may favour slightly the leopard for its proportionally larger skull and neck) and jaguars. Some gripping dogs would give a very good performance - but probably only as with not backing off while getting ripped apart - as they'd get either out frightfully injured or dead since their offensive weapons kinda suck (while they'd work at parity with 60-80 lb smallish leopards, as cats decrease in strength as they decrease by size and the opposite for dogs, they increase in strength as they decrease by size). Which IS acknowledged by that instance where a Bully Kutta failed to dominate a potentially smaller leopard despite the leopard wasn't the one "dominating" the fight and turned into a defensive prolonged fight, where no leopard wants to be, which still got the dog killed by the cat as result. That said I won't see a brown hyena performing well here, if the Leopard is a male. While we have only a handful confirmed account of male leopards subduing or even killing adult spotted hyenas(Although the sex of the hyena isn't specified), what has a smaller brown hyena have over a spotted hyena to fair better? What could explain the hyena's response then? Did it overdose on cocaine, die, and the leopard biting it jumpstarted its heart and it managed to come back to life? Are we viewing a rescue? It tried to mess with a leopard, it became trapped in the leopard's arms and couldn't free itself, so it chose the best option it had; play dead. It lost either way, but it's a testament to their durability if they can survive a leopard kill attempt even when they're fully limp. Well brown hyenas are a little larger and overall more formidable than the striped hyena, which is recorded to put up a good fight against a leopard. And in vast majority of instances, a spotted hyena can make even a male leopard tree, it's not like leopards are sticking around believing they can win. They do stick around more often with the brown and striped hyena, and will from time to time fight them. This is not something they often do with spotted hyenas. You actually posted an interaction on reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/natureismetal/comments/tv4tdb/audacious_brown_hyena_challenges_an_83_kg_male/ Of course that leopard was far too large. I think the Bully Kutta was definitely dominating the fight, it didn't fail to dominate. It just got outlasted in the damage department. The video of the Bully Kutta killing the little leopardess shows this, since the leopard didn't stop moving for a bit. It was shut down, fast, and easily, at no point was the Bully Kutta in any danger, but it's apparent that if we were dealing with an adult male leopard taking such time to kill the leopard could very well end in the Bully Kutta's demise like it did there. |
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Post by grippingwhiteness on Jul 17, 2023 21:33:42 GMT
I strongly not believe that the hyena there played dead,either way it got subdued by the leopard that was also larger in size (allegedly reported to be 165 lb male, that hyena which looks like a male was probably 120 lbish). Male leopards at 130-150 lbs are already too powerful and formidable, given the occasion, for almost any Carnivora their size or smaller, with the exception only on spotted hyenas , cougars (although at parity I may favour slightly the leopard for its proportionally larger skull and neck) and jaguars. Some gripping dogs would give a very good performance - but probably only as with not backing off while getting ripped apart - as they'd get either out frightfully injured or dead since their offensive weapons kinda suck (while they'd work at parity with 60-80 lb smallish leopards, as cats decrease in strength as they decrease by size and the opposite for dogs, they increase in strength as they decrease by size). Which IS acknowledged by that instance where a Bully Kutta failed to dominate a potentially smaller leopard despite the leopard wasn't the one "dominating" the fight and turned into a defensive prolonged fight, where no leopard wants to be, which still got the dog killed by the cat as result. That said I won't see a brown hyena performing well here, if the Leopard is a male. While we have only a handful confirmed account of male leopards subduing or even killing adult spotted hyenas(Although the sex of the hyena isn't specified), what has a smaller brown hyena have over a spotted hyena to fair better? What could explain the hyena's response then? Did it overdose on cocaine, die, and the leopard biting it jumpstarted its heart and it managed to come back to life? Are we viewing a rescue? It tried to mess with a leopard, it became trapped in the leopard's arms and couldn't free itself, so it chose the best option it had; play dead. It lost either way, but it's a testament to their durability if they can survive a leopard kill attempt even when they're fully limp. Well brown hyenas are a little larger and overall more formidable than the striped hyena, which is recorded to put up a good fight against a leopard. And in vast majority of instances, a spotted hyena can make even a male leopard tree, it's not like leopards are sticking around believing they can win. They do stick around more often with the brown and striped hyena, and will from time to time fight them. This is not something they often do with spotted hyenas. You actually posted an interaction on reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/natureismetal/comments/tv4tdb/audacious_brown_hyena_challenges_an_83_kg_male/ Of course that leopard was far too large. I think the Bully Kutta was definitely dominating the fight, it didn't fail to dominate. It just got outlasted in the damage department. The video of the Bully Kutta killing the little leopardess shows this, since the leopard didn't stop moving for a bit. It was shut down, fast, and easily, at no point was the Bully Kutta in any danger, but it's apparent that if we were dealing with an adult male leopard taking such time to kill the leopard could very well end in the Bully Kutta's demise like it did there. There is actually, although staged and shit overall- basically s.h.i.t, old stages fight between a what I think it's an indian leopardess and a slightly larger striped hyena. I'm not going to post it because it's shit both by barbarism and quality aswell, but the hyena ended up with its face badly injured and covered in blood and also exhausted while the leopard was perfectly fine. It's a shame that we rarely see leopards and hyenas actually clashing, would probably be the most interesting and close grappler vs no grappler fight especially when we can use large, very large individuals on both sides. 200 lb hyena vs 200 lb leopard would be hell. Unlike 200 lb Mastiff vs 200 lb leopard on which we would end up with a 400 lb leopard lol. The fun fact is that we don't know the sex od the leopard that killed the Bully Kutta, but I suspect it being a 115-120 lbish male (likely from that region) against a potentially larger BK of 130-145 lbs. I strongly doubt the leopard was larger than that, also because at parity when already in the 130-150 lb range an aggressive male leopard with that macho attitude is just too good for any dog that size, smaller or larger imo, and would end the fight in a gory massacre while dominating it imo, especially when comparing the weaponry. Brown hyenas get actually pretty big, for sure larger than Striped ones and they definitely overlap with some average male leopards    For comparison this is how a 155 lb leopard looks like  |
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