Diesel vs Sun Bear

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vs

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Tossup, the sun bear can grapple, has impressive claws, and loose skin but Diesel has strength, speed and agility, and jaws. I’ll have to wait for other members to have a say before making up my mind.

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Nov 16, 2022 4:26:20 GMT @packhunter said:

Tossup, the sun bear can grapple, has impressive claws, and loose skin but Diesel has strength, speed and agility, and jaws. I’ll have to wait for other members to have a say before making up my mind.

I think that unlike many other pig dogs Diesel could actually damage the sun bear. And considering Diesel should secure the bear's face, and has loose skin to deal with inaccurate rakings from the bear, perhaps Diesel should have the advantage.
A large male sun bear perhaps should be favored after a long day of getting its ass beat, I'd be really impressed if it could withstand such a long offensive attack from Diesel though.

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Nov 16, 2022 4:28:55 GMT Bolushi said:

Nov 16, 2022 4:26:20 GMT @packhunter said:

Tossup, the sun bear can grapple, has impressive claws, and loose skin but Diesel has strength, speed and agility, and jaws. I’ll have to wait for other members to have a say before making up my mind.

I think that unlike many other pig dogs Diesel could actually damage the sun bear. And considering Diesel should secure the bear's face, and has loose skin to deal with inaccurate rakings from the bear, perhaps Diesel should have the advantage.
A large male sun bear perhaps should be favored after a long day of getting its ass beat, I'd be really impressed if it could withstand such a long offensive attack from Diesel though.

Yeah, I don’t think the sun bear will be in any condition to fight back after getting dominated.

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Nov 16, 2022 4:34:40 GMT @packhunter said:

Nov 16, 2022 4:28:55 GMT Bolushi said:

I think that unlike many other pig dogs Diesel could actually damage the sun bear. And considering Diesel should secure the bear's face, and has loose skin to deal with inaccurate rakings from the bear, perhaps Diesel should have the advantage.
A large male sun bear perhaps should be favored after a long day of getting its ass beat, I'd be really impressed if it could withstand such a long offensive attack from Diesel though.

Yeah, I don’t think the sun bear will be in any condition to fight back after getting dominated.

Note how when dogs fight when one rests the other is also resting and tired even if it was the one losing, ignoring bull terriers. Even when one of them should have more stamina than the other, for example a Dogo vs Alabai, both end up resting. Then resuming but not as hard as they were initially. This would result in the beaten and pretty injured sun bear running off into the forest to die probably and Diesel trotting home proud of himself with some scratch marks.
If you trapped them in a cage and forced them into a death battle, perhaps the sun bear could mount a pathetic offense. Even if the sun bear did kill Diesel, which I'd bet my life savings that it wouldn't, it would be on death's doorstep.
Assuming a wild encounter, a severely injured sun bear limps into the forest to die.
I still think a really good sun bear has a chance, but the more I think about it the more I favor the dog.

[Hardcastle]

Note that is diesel as a puppy, probably about 55 kgs, he went on to be 75 kgs. I had one really good pic of him at full strength which I lost in the photobucket purge.
I think he could win this, risk of being dug out by the bear's claws while it is in a defensive position being mauled, which are nastier than cat claws and also the bear will endure more punishment so have more time to accumulate damage. So it's a risky fight for Diesel, but if any dog could kill a sun bear outright he was the kind of dog to do it.

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Nov 16, 2022 21:45:32 GMT Hardcastle said:

Note that is diesel as a puppy, probably about 55 kgs, he went on to be 75 kgs. I had one really good pic of him at full strength which I lost in the photobucket purge.
I think he could win this, risk of being dug out by the bear's claws while it is in a defensive position being mauled, which are nastier than cat claws and also the bear will endure more punishment so have more time to accumulate damage. So it's a risky fight for Diesel, but if any dog could kill a sun bear outright he was the kind of dog to do it.

Did adult Diesel look like the picture of the BWH on the chain?

[Hardcastle]

A bit, but a longer skull and kind of bigger in the shoulders and chest and bigger neck. That dog actually looks more athletic than Diesel looked, but he was surprisingly athletic for his size and even ran down a fox in an open field chase. That dog you're talking about wouldn't be as heavy as diesel was. In truth I prefer the style of the dog you're talking about, but Diesel was a total beast full grown.

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Nov 16, 2022 23:03:52 GMT Hardcastle said:

A bit, but a longer skull and kind of bigger in the shoulders and chest and bigger neck. That dog actually looks more athletic than Diesel looked, but he was surprisingly athletic for his size and even ran down a fox in an open field chase. That dog you're talking about wouldn't be as heavy as diesel was. In truth I prefer the style of the dog you're talking about, but Diesel was a total beast full grown.

What do you think is the bare minimum animal you'd need to beat Diesel majority of the time?

[Hardcastle]

I guess a very big male leopard or puma and certainly a jaguar would still be a big issue for him. He was weirdly good and mobile for a 75 kg dog, but still might be pushing it against 75+ kg big cats who really seem to suffer no ill effect from being so big at all, even improve proportionately. Not sure exactly where big cats "meet" dogs, but it's usually somewhere well below 75 kg. I tend to think more like 55 kgs. Diesel being a bit of "freak" makes things interesting, but yeah... definitely Jaguar I think at parity would have his number. Possibly a leopard or puma too. Might be a great fight, not sure.

Having said that, I think he'd beat any wolf that ever lived, too big and strong and all the wolf advantages over some dogs are non-existent against him. His skull would be just as large, teeth even just as long (they were huge), he'd be no less quick than the largest timberwolves (who are slower than smaller wolves, which no one talks about much), I'd bet his bite force was at least as high and then supported with stronger grip and deeper mandible. So yeah I'd forget about even the biggest Mackenzie valley wolf against a dog like that.