Kangal Pack Stretching a bear

[Musth]

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0CdYc9znW5MgfBwSfYu8xEk9ZvyHzVybyMj2rmA67KCffXSjfy5Ds8AH941nSTdrfl&id=100080924049877&mibextid=qC1gEa 


Houndsmen would make you think bears are indestructible and using dogs to catch like pit bulls, dogos etc are impossible. Here’s Kangals catching a bear.


Although gritty Hounds have been even known to stretch a bear as well.
”Most gritty dogs I've had are airedale/walker crosses. Insanely gritty. The man I get them from had a pack of them that would stretch out a good sized bear on the ground and hold them like a hog. I am also running some catahoulas and leopard hounds that are pretty young still but showing good promise. I have a couple that are 2 months old and already trying to bite coons.” 
www.biggamehoundsmen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40578


Moral of the story; dogs especially with big enough pack, can definitely catch bears…. Maybe above is a bad example cause it uses so many dogs, but it shows you that it is possible to catch and stretch with a pack of dogs, and also that big dogs are also capable of performing against bears. 

[Wyatt]

Jun 22, 2023 17:52:57 GMT Musth said:

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0CdYc9znW5MgfBwSfYu8xEk9ZvyHzVybyMj2rmA67KCffXSjfy5Ds8AH941nSTdrfl&id=100080924049877&mibextid=qC1gEa 


Houndsmen would make you think bears are indestructible and using dogs to catch like pit bulls, dogos etc are impossible. Here’s Kangals catching a bear.


Although gritty Hounds have been even known to stretch a bear as well.
”Most gritty dogs I've had are airedale/walker crosses. Insanely gritty. The man I get them from had a pack of them that would stretch out a good sized bear on the ground and hold them like a hog. I am also running some catahoulas and leopard hounds that are pretty young still but showing good promise. I have a couple that are 2 months old and already trying to bite coons.” 
www.biggamehoundsmen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40578


Moral of the story; dogs especially with big enough pack, can definitely catch bears…. Maybe above is a bad example cause it uses so many dogs, but it shows you that it is possible to catch and stretch with a pack of dogs, and also that big dogs are also capable of performing against bears. 

Canids don’t kill bears like candy though. They kill em’ sometimes but it seems to be isolated incidents.

And there are dogs that can subdue them but there is a extreme scarcity of dogs that can fight to the death with them.

[Deleted]

I was quite excited for a sec until I saw about ten Kangals tackling an immature Brown bear.

[CoolJohnson]

Jun 22, 2023 18:02:54 GMT @ling said:

I was quite excited for a sec until I saw about ten Kangals tackling an immature Brown bear.

That is basically any pro-dog post.

A lot of times it seems they use mutliple dogs on a young or trapped animal.

Lone dogs have limited fighting abilities so they will get killed more easily by the target. The exception is that the dog should have a significant size advantage against its quarry.

[Hardcastle]

Jun 22, 2023 19:14:31 GMT CoolJohnson said:

Jun 22, 2023 18:02:54 GMT @ling said:

I was quite excited for a sec until I saw about ten Kangals tackling an immature Brown bear.

That is basically any pro-dog post.

A lot of times it seems they use mutliple dogs on a young or trapped animal.

Lone dogs have limited fighting abilities so they will get killed more easily by the target. The exception is that the dog should have a significant size advantage against its quarry.

Yes this is a very unfair contest, so unfair that 7 of the 10 dogs can't even be bothered participating. 

But that doesn't then equate to this fantasy that less dogs on a bigger bear would easily be killed by the target. That's a leap in logic that has no basis.

It's not like we're seeing a bear "nearly" win in the video, only to succumb to the great number of dogs. It's not doing anything and not able to do anything. It's entirely possible, even clearly likely, that one of those dogs would have had the young bear doing the same thing- crying uncle and incapacitated. It's yes, too young to be fighting. So one dog or 17 actually is well beside the point. 

Besides that, bears don't kill anything easily, that's just not their forte. And they do in fact have a difficult time with dogs much much smaller than them even one on one. Never at any danger of "dying" or anything, but they find them awkward and troublesome because they don't give up and are squirelly and difficult to control. 

Wishing to possess a dog of the real fighting strain, Mr. Brooke imported from Bordeaux a young fawn dog of gladiatorial lineage. This dog, Matador du Midi, had among its ancestors the celebrated Caporal, for seven years champion of the Pyrenees, who weighed 108 pounds, and stood nearly 25 inches at the shoulder, and had a skull circumference of 26 inches ; Megere, a bitch who had been pitted against wolf, bear and hyaena ; and Hercules, who was finally killed by a jaguar in a terrific battle in San Francisco. Matador du Midi had already had what in the old bear-baiting days was called a " jump " at a bear, and Mr. Brooke tried him when eighteen months old at a large Russian bear which stood six feet high on his hind legs. " The dog showed great science in keeping his body as much sideways as possible, to avoid the bear's hug, and threw the bear fairly and squarely on the grass three times."

link


Do you keep up your logic when you see things like this-

One lion would lose for sure against a leopard, lucky there were so many lions, they still had a hard time so therefore a leopard could kill 4 or 5 lions quickly, etc. 

[Wyatt]

Jun 22, 2023 20:03:12 GMT Hardcastle said:

Jun 22, 2023 19:14:31 GMT CoolJohnson said:

That is basically any pro-dog post.

A lot of times it seems they use mutliple dogs on a young or trapped animal.

Lone dogs have limited fighting abilities so they will get killed more easily by the target. The exception is that the dog should have a significant size advantage against its quarry.

Yes this is a very unfair contest, so unfair that 7 of the 10 dogs can't even be bothered participating. 

But that doesn't then equate to this fantasy that less dogs on a bigger bear would easily be killed by the target. That's a leap in logic that has no basis.

It's not like we're seeing a bear "nearly" win in the video, only to succumb to the great number of dogs. It's not doing anything and not able to do anything. It's entirely possible, even clearly likely, that one of those dogs would have had the young bear doing the same thing- crying uncle and incapacitated. It's yes, too young to be fighting. So one dog or 17 actually is well beside the point. 

Besides that, bears don't kill anything easily, that's just not their forte. And they do in fact have a difficult time with dogs much much smaller than them even one on one. Never at any danger of "dying" or anything, but they find them awkward and troublesome because they don't give up and are squirelly and difficult to control. 

Wishing to possess a dog of the real fighting strain, Mr. Brooke imported from Bordeaux a young fawn dog of gladiatorial lineage. This dog, Matador du Midi, had among its ancestors the celebrated Caporal, for seven years champion of the Pyrenees, who weighed 108 pounds, and stood nearly 25 inches at the shoulder, and had a skull circumference of 26 inches ; Megere, a bitch who had been pitted against wolf, bear and hyaena ; and Hercules, who was finally killed by a jaguar in a terrific battle in San Francisco. Matador du Midi had already had what in the old bear-baiting days was called a " jump " at a bear, and Mr. Brooke tried him when eighteen months old at a large Russian bear which stood six feet high on his hind legs. " The dog showed great science in keeping his body as much sideways as possible, to avoid the bear's hug, and threw the bear fairly and squarely on the grass three times."

link


Do you keep up your logic when you see things like this-

One lion would lose for sure against a leopard, lucky there were so many lions, they still had a hard time so therefore a leopard could kill 4 or 5 lions quickly, etc. 

How do bears view wolves in your opinion? Ima be busy making a response.

[Wyatt]

Hardcastle is right here, bears are EXTREMELY difficult to kill. Its not easy, and if they get a good grip on something they maul it, basically overpowering it. Thats how they hunt and fight, using their huge body to overpower and using their teeth to maul their target.

CoolJohnson does make a fair point that there were a bunch of dogs here, but its wrong to say that the dogs could only go against a bear if there were numbers.
This is true for AWD’s. This is true for Dholes. This is true for many prehistoric canids like Dire Wolves as well.

It is not true for wolves. Its not true for dogs. Its not true for coyotes. Its not true for jackals.

The canids I mentioned 2 paragraphs above here get stronger with numbers, acting all as one, to use every individual to basically become stronger. Without numbers they literally can’t fend for themselves like they used to anymore.

Where as with the canids in the category of jackals, basically wolves, dogs, coyotes, jackals etc. they actually get LESS effective with numbers.

Scientific studies have mentioned this. There is a lot of incentive to let others going in for the kill, and too many different individual roles in the hunt.

A peak, efficient pack is 1-5 members, going into 10-20 becomes way overkill and way less efficient.

[Musth]

Jun 22, 2023 19:14:31 GMT CoolJohnson said:

Jun 22, 2023 18:02:54 GMT @ling said:

I was quite excited for a sec until I saw about ten Kangals tackling an immature Brown bear.

That is basically any pro-dog post.

A lot of times it seems they use mutliple dogs on a young or trapped animal.

Lone dogs have limited fighting abilities so they will get killed more easily by the target. The exception is that the dog should have a significant size advantage against its quarry.

Well honestly this thread was to take aim at traditional scentHound hunters. According to the majority of them if you have a pack of dogs that catch, tackle, and fully physically engage with a bear half of your hound pack will be wiped out(scentHound hunters can use even more dogs that are shown in the video). They’re expected to stand back and bay; and god forbid if they actually decide to catch or fight a bear, because half of your pack will get wiped out  

[Bolushi]

Jun 25, 2023 22:09:16 GMT Musth said:

Jun 22, 2023 19:14:31 GMT CoolJohnson said:

That is basically any pro-dog post.

A lot of times it seems they use mutliple dogs on a young or trapped animal.

Lone dogs have limited fighting abilities so they will get killed more easily by the target. The exception is that the dog should have a significant size advantage against its quarry.

Well honestly this thread was to take aim at traditional scentHound hunters. According to the majority of them if you have a pack of dogs that catch, tackle, and fully physically engage with a bear half of your hound pack will be wiped out(scentHound hunters can use even more dogs that are shown in the video). They’re expected to stand back and bay; and god forbid if they actually decide to catch or fight a bear, because half of your pack will get wiped out  

I heard the Airedale Terrier was used when the dogs would actually fight the bear. Not like pitbulls or something but they'd get close, bite and hold, let go, rinse and repeat etc.
Is that true? 

[Musth]

Jun 25, 2023 23:00:46 GMT Bolushi said:

Jun 25, 2023 22:09:16 GMT Musth said:

Well honestly this thread was to take aim at traditional scentHound hunters. According to the majority of them if you have a pack of dogs that catch, tackle, and fully physically engage with a bear half of your hound pack will be wiped out(scentHound hunters can use even more dogs that are shown in the video). They’re expected to stand back and bay; and god forbid if they actually decide to catch or fight a bear, because half of your pack will get wiped out  

I heard the Airedale Terrier was used when the dogs would actually fight the bear. Not like pitbulls or something but they'd get close, bite and hold, let go, rinse and repeat etc.
Is that true? 

Yep absolutely, they make an animal tree alot faster especially and if the quarry is stubborn and wants to stand its ground they will fight a bear(I guess you could call it a gritty bay dog). Generally looking for an opening to score a good bite in without getting bit then retreating without getting hit. A much better strategy than full on catching a bear like a bulldog. Jagdterriers can be used like the Airedale and are too fast/agile for bears to catch. But occasionally one will try to catch a bear and that’s when trouble can happen. Bears are definitely known to kill dogs as well. Have heard of both hounds and jagdterriers killed by bears. 


But let’s be honest if you put 10 catch dogs on a bear/cougar it’s not gonna stand a chance(unless it is an enormously huge bear, I’m talking the black bear on legal bear to hunt with dogs). But it’s gonna risk a lot more vet bells. 

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