Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2023 19:47:21 GMT
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Post by Bolushi on Jun 20, 2023 1:25:52 GMT
Wrestler easy
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Post by Hardcastle on Jun 20, 2023 2:10:39 GMT
Well both are wrestlers. Karelin is just a more decorated and elite wrestler, but Jones is a freakishly gifted wrestler as well and more than his wrestling pedigree lets on. He has dominated Olympic wrestlers and more accomplished NCAA wrestlers in the grapple in MMA.
Karelin is next level though.
I'd say karelin if he gets to keep the weight advantage (286 lbs, Jones is only 248 as a heavyweight ... So far. Karelin seemed to cut to 286 so is probably more like 300 lbs).
Hypothetically if Jones built himself up to 265 lbs and karelin got down to 265... I'd probably lean Jones. Good enough wrestler to possibly keep it standing, and then would be absolutely dominant everywhere else. Even if Jones got outwrestled he also may be able to pull off Jiu Jitsu tricks to prevail which karelin doesn't know about.
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Post by Bolushi on Jun 20, 2023 2:37:19 GMT
For some reason humans fighting doesn't interest me one tiny bit unless it's a street fight between random guys, preferably with improvised weapons. Or a shootout.
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Post by Bolushi on Jun 20, 2023 2:38:11 GMT
Do all combat sports players use steroids? Do these two? Whitey over here looks juiced.
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Post by Hardcastle on Jun 20, 2023 2:45:01 GMT
Basically yeah. Never been busted but most everyone who knows is fairly confident he was on growth hormones and super soviet roids. Jones has even been busted with a little something but the rules have since changed and that amount wouldn't even get him busted now, still, it's likely both used different things. Most pro athletes probably do.
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Post by Bolushi on Jun 20, 2023 2:46:29 GMT
Basically yeah. Never been busted but most everyone who knows is fairly confident he was on growth hormones and super soviet roids. Jones has even been busted with a little something but the rules have since changed and that amount wouldn't even get him busted now, still, it's likely both used different things. Most pro athletes probably do. Aren't steroids cosmetic? They don't seem to make you much stronger. Just a little more imposing, perhaps heavier and bulkier. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jun 20, 2023 2:49:31 GMT
For some reason humans fighting doesn't interest me one tiny bit unless it's a street fight between random guys, preferably with improvised weapons. Or a shootout. I've always been interested in all fighting, and really all kinds of animal performance. Humans to me were mostly one of the animals I was least interested in, but still I was interested in their physical/athletic performance. As an adult I've become a little more interested in humans and they have elevated among my animal rankings. Still not that close to the top, and I actually have no interest in "weapons" stuff. Armies fighting each other or whatever is a huge snooze fest for me. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jun 20, 2023 2:51:54 GMT
Basically yeah. Never been busted but most everyone who knows is fairly confident he was on growth hormones and super soviet roids. Jones has even been busted with a little something but the rules have since changed and that amount wouldn't even get him busted now, still, it's likely both used different things. Most pro athletes probably do. Aren't steroids cosmetic? They don't seem to make you much stronger. Just a little more imposing, perhaps heavier and bulkier. No, they are very much for performance. Some steroid guys don't even look muscular, depends on the type of steroids, but they improve performance. They improve recovery and endurance, allow guys to train hard on back to back to back days where without them they'd be too sore, and yeah obviously can help you get way stronger as a result. But yeah stamina might be even bigger than strength with steroids. All the long distance cyclist guys are some of the worst offenders for steroids. Long distance swimmers as well. But really all athletes of every kind. |
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Post by Bolushi on Jun 20, 2023 2:53:11 GMT
For some reason humans fighting doesn't interest me one tiny bit unless it's a street fight between random guys, preferably with improvised weapons. Or a shootout. I've always been interested in all fighting, and really all kinds of animal performance. Humans to me were mostly one of the animals I was least interested in, but still I was interested in their physical/athletic performance. As an adult I've become a little more interested in humans and they have elevated among my animal rankings. Still not that close to the top, and I actually have no interest in "weapons" stuff. Armies fighting each other or whatever is a huge snooze fest for me. I dunno, watching some asshole clock a homeless man over the head with a beer bottle and the homeless man grabs a file and starts to tearing him to pieces or whatever is entertaining to me. Professional stuff isn't of great interest to me, e.g. professional human fights or gamebred apbt fights or whatever. Armies are boring. Road rage shootings and gang-related shootings = entertainment. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jun 20, 2023 2:57:03 GMT
As mindless comedy entertainment, yes. That's different to me than something I want to analyse and break down and glean pertinent clues about animal performance from, lol. I believe you can do the latter even just watching a game of football or whatever, it can all be relevant to animal vs animal in some ways. The kind of shit you are talking about... less so. But maybe sometimes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2023 9:41:28 GMT
Karelin is next level though. Is Karelin peak? |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jun 20, 2023 15:28:42 GMT
Karelin is next level though. Is Karelin peak? It seemed like it, but then...  A fat dork entered the chat. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2023 15:45:49 GMT
It seemed like it, but then... A fat dork entered the chat. The only point scored in that match was due to Karelin breaking his grip around Gardner's chest. That's it, no takedown, control, or anything - in a position set up by the ref, with no effect on control, his fingers stopped touching for a second. It was a new rule that year, and it gave Garden an unworthy story to tell to his grand kids. |
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Musth
Ruminant
Posts: 141
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Post by Musth on Jun 20, 2023 22:19:42 GMT
Jon Jones….. come on guys lol. Karelin only knows wrestling…. Give Karelin 5-10 years of mma it might be waaay different. Even if fight went to the ground Jon jones would submit Karelin most likely. If anything Jones would mostly likely KO him on the feet. The skill gap is too big, Karelin would have a huge hard time to close the distance. He’s a Greco Roman wrestler upper body throws only… he’s not shooting double legs or leg attacks from far out. Yes he can still shoot in for body locks but when it comes to using wrestling for an actual fight Jon jones out wrestled an Olympian(Daniel Cormier). Mma wrestling is different than pure wrestling, wrestling from the fighting stance, distance, and set ups are totally different too
Karelin was an absolute beast and monster, but to beat the greatest of all time while spending no time committing to the sport I disagree with.
Watch Karelin on the outside… leg kick after leg kick, Karelin looks so awkward on the outside, that isn’t good enough against the worlds best fighter. He even gets take down in @4:00 in this video. Also gets his back taken at 7;55. So this stuff against a well trained and also physical fighter in Jon jones and he will get finished. But honestly the striking alone would be enough from Jon Jones. Jones isn’t small anymore either. Karelin will still be bigger and stronger but they will be in the same weight class.
Here’s the weirdest mma fight of all time and Karelin only fight.
If this match up was against anyone else. I would give Karelin good chances and possible favour him and if it’s against anyone other than an elite mma fighter from 205-265 (possibly 185 as well). Karelin vs Khabib for example Karelin most likely kills him, etc.
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