Strongest extant canid individual historically?

[ophio]

I bring to you wolf 760m 

148 pounds on an empty stomach 
www.yellowstonewolf.org/yellowstone_wolf.php?wolf_id=56

[ophio]

May 17, 2023 22:05:23 GMT Wyatt said:

Either the Dire Wolf or the bone-crushing dog. 

The bone-crushing dog did use ambush a lot and used crushing bones, as implied in their name. They could basically grab a neck and that was it.
Wolves have to wait until they’ve rendered their prey defenseless.

I pick the Dire Wolf too but thats because of its pack cohesion as well. Basically large Lycaons. The Dire Wolf more had tight-knit pack cohesion on its side therefore that made them so successful.

Extant

[Hardcastle]

I'd say some of those 100 kg fighting alabais would be hard to beat in sheer strength.
I don't think any wolf would be in the conversation.Even dire wolves wouldn't be (that's even if they were valid entrants).

[Bolushi]

Maybe Diesel qualifies?

[Hardcastle]

May 21, 2023 17:02:11 GMT Bolushi said:

Maybe Diesel qualifies?

Up there with the biggest and best boarhounds, there have been quite a few like him though.
Historically many of the colonial era "bloodhounds" were built like Diesel.




"Hero" looks pretty fat to my eye (both kinda do), BUT at 198 lbs, in his prime and in shape was still probably at least 165 lbs. Especially if the "3 feet and 2 inches" is accurate (that's 38 inches).

I still think if you're just talking strength it's hard to go past some of the huge fighting LGDs.

[Musth]

May 22, 2023 10:08:03 GMT Hardcastle said:

May 21, 2023 17:02:11 GMT Bolushi said:

Maybe Diesel qualifies?

Up there with the biggest and best boarhounds, there have been quite a few like him though.
Historically many of the colonial era "bloodhounds" were built like Diesel.




"Hero" looks pretty fat to my eye (both kinda do), BUT at 198 lbs, in his prime and in shape was still probably at least 165 lbs. Especially if the "3 feet and 2 inches" is accurate (that's 38 inches).

I still think if you're just talking strength it's hard to go past some of the huge fighting LGDs.

They almost look exactly like Bully Kutta to me….. what a coincidence Bully Kutta were considered a “hunting hound” before they were primarily bred and used to fight(some seldomly are still used to hunt and for guard dogs). 

After actually seeing a picture of these bloodhounds the BK comes to mind.

 <style type="text/css"></style><style type="text/css">a[href^="http://www.mobi24.net/"]{display:none !important;}#gravity-stories-1{display:none !important;}a[href^="https://www.mobi24.net/"]{display:none !important;}[class*="NotificationsBell__notificationsWrapper-"]{display:none !important;}#ad1{display:none !important;}[id^="ad-"], #remove_ads_link{display:none !important;}[class^="adjust-smart-banner"]{display:none !important;}amp-app-banner{display:none !important;}</style><style type="text/css"></style><style type="text/css">#ad1{display:none !important;}#gravity-stories-1{display:none !important;}[class*="NotificationsBell__notificationsWrapper-"]{display:none !important;}[id^="ad-"], #remove_ads_link{display:none !important;}amp-app-banner{display:none !important;}[class^="adjust-smart-banner"]{display:none !important;}a[href^="http://www.mobi24.net/"]{display:none !important;}a[href^="https://www.mobi24.net/"]{display:none !important;}</style>

[Musth]

And yes I agree with Hardcastle a 100kg dog especially used for work, will be much stronger than a 148lbs wolf. Wolves aren’t necessarily built for pure power or strength. They are more of a marathon runner than a power athlete.

[Hardcastle]

May 24, 2023 17:31:00 GMT Musth said:

May 22, 2023 10:08:03 GMT Hardcastle said:

Up there with the biggest and best boarhounds, there have been quite a few like him though.
Historically many of the colonial era "bloodhounds" were built like Diesel.




"Hero" looks pretty fat to my eye (both kinda do), BUT at 198 lbs, in his prime and in shape was still probably at least 165 lbs. Especially if the "3 feet and 2 inches" is accurate (that's 38 inches).

I still think if you're just talking strength it's hard to go past some of the huge fighting LGDs.

They almost look exactly like Bully Kutta to me….. what a coincidence Bully Kutta were considered a “hunting hound” before they were primarily bred and used to fight(some seldomly are still used to hunt and for guard dogs). 

After actually seeing a picture of these bloodhounds the BK comes to mind.

"Bloodhounds" were employed across the colonial empires of England, Spain, Portugal, France, and probably the others as well. They were one of the main weapons utilised to intimidate and subjugate (and sometimes eradicate) both the native locals of the newly settled lands, and also any slaves who were brought in from other locations as well. Natives from these different exotic countries only knew of pariah dogs, mostly, maybe some had sighthounds or even LGDs as well, usually not the lowly peasant "masses" who the colonists were working with. For the most part these giant modified boarhounds (modified to be bigger, and trained to be aggressive to humans) would have scared the hell out of these people and been like nothing they had ever seen. It allowed european colonists to control huge crowds of people with only a few guys and some dogs because the locals were so intimidated by the dogs (and to some extent the self assuredness of the european people as well, and their guns).

Basically, good eye. I have no doubt whatsoever the bully kutta descends from "bloodhounds" used to intimidate and control the people of India during British occupation. We see the bull terrier for the bloodsports in the gull terr, we even see some decent boar-lurchers here and there, the third dog they would have been employing was their "man dogs", big human aggressive bloodhounds made similarly to how boarhounds were made, blending bull/mastiff and big sighthound. Even just taking retired boarhounds and blowing them up was a strategy.



Clearly just acquired great danes, really, but then give them a silly name and train them to be man aggressive.

Bully Kuttas are to me clearly just India's colonial bloodhounds.

[Hardcastle]

Thought this was pretty cool, the testimony of an aztec first seeing a spanish "bloodhound" style dog and reporting it back to Montezuma.

“Their dogs are enormous, with flat ears and long, dangling tongues. The color of their eyes is a
burning yellow; their eyes flash fire and shoot off sparks. Their bellies are hollow, their flanks long and
narrow. They are tireless and very powerful. They bound here and there, panting, with their tongues
hanging out. And they are spotted like an ocelot.”
When Motecuhzoma heard this report, he was filled with terror. It was as if his heart had fainted, as
it if had shriveled. It was as if he were conquered by despair. . . .

link

[Hardcastle]

May 24, 2023 18:37:09 GMT Hardcastle said:

Thought this was pretty cool, the testimony of an aztec first seeing a spanish "bloodhound" style dog and reporting it back to Montezuma.

“Their dogs are enormous, with flat ears and long, dangling tongues. The color of their eyes is a
burning yellow; their eyes flash fire and shoot off sparks. Their bellies are hollow, their flanks long and
narrow. They are tireless and very powerful. They bound here and there, panting, with their tongues
hanging out. And they are spotted like an ocelot.”
When Motecuhzoma heard this report, he was filled with terror. It was as if his heart had fainted, as
it if had shriveled. It was as if he were conquered by despair. . . .

link

Mind you, they probably weren't that huge originally, they seemed to actually range from greyhounds/lurchers up to biggish boarhounds -

These still would have been huge to the natives, and after settling in they'd breed some bigger specifically for intimidation.

[Hardcastle]

Even long distance hunting hounds don't need to cover anything like the distances wolves do, and aren't as lightly built.

Herding dogs do, and sled dogs as well. They can get up around and over those genuine "marathon" distances.

Heelers aren't that robust, especially the proper working ones, and you can get away with carrying a little more robusticity if you are small. It's less of a strain on your cardio vascular system to pump blood around a 20 inch tall body vs a 36 inch tall body. They also probably don't cover as much ground as a sheep dog, with cattle being less flighty, and heelers working more loose and hanging back while mustering and droving.