The Yellowstone Coyote: Top Dog To Underdog Discussion

[Deleted]

Where do coyotes fit? They can’t bring down anything past deer unless its on the verge of death or can’t defend itself. Even then, they rip the hamstrings off the hind or hamstrings of the deer for multiple days until hopefully they can find that deer.
And everything hates them. Wolves, ravens, birds of prey, ravens, bears, cats, humans and probably more all hate them, and the badger is their only hope, forming symbiotic relationships. They resemble those Jackals attacking that antelope, biting at the hamstrings and rear, except with deer. Wolves and ravens have a special hate for coyotes. Ravens even host calculated attacks on coyotes, bringing wolves over and watching the whole scenario take place.
Oh, and they don’t even love ravens and ravens don’t love them, unlike wolves. Ravens will harass and target coyotes and coyotes constantly chase them away. Considering all wolf subspecies tolerating or bonding with them, thats pretty tough coyotes are the ones to hate them. 
Hardcastle , Bolushi , CoolJohnson , oldgreengrolar , lincoln , colein , @ling , PumAcinonyx SuperCat .

[Hardcastle]

They are jackals. Prairie jackals aka American Jackals. "Coyote" is just some woo-woo native American word.

I go a step further and argue the wolf is also a jackal. The "king jackal". They come from a long line of Jackals and differ from the real pack hunting dogs (like African wild dogs, dholes and extinct dogs like xenocyon, aenocyon, canis armbrusteri, canis Chiliensis, et al). The wolf is a jackal that learned to adapt and become an apex predator pack canine but it is still kind of clumsy and bad at it and retains jackal characteristics.

[Deleted]

Apr 6, 2023 11:50:11 GMT Hardcastle said:

They are jackals. Prairie jackals aka American Jackals. "Coyote" is just some woo-woo native American word.

I go a step further and argue the wolf is also a jackal. The "king jackal". They come from a long line of Jackals and differ from the real pack hunting dogs (like African wild dogs, dholes and extinct dogs like xenocyon, aenocyon, canis armbrusteri, canis Chiliensis, et al). The wolf is a jackal that learned to adapt and become an apex predator pack canine but it is still kind of clumsy and bad at it and retains jackal characteristics.

Agreed. Wolves also retain jackal characteristics in their pack structure and how they function. But wolves have evolved enough into their evolutionary form that nature wanted them to be that they can actually decently take down white-tailed deer. There are videos of coyotes and jackals taking hours at best or days/weeks at worst to take down a buck. Where as if it was a wolf that deer would be butchered and already eaten. Wolves are basically large, pack hunting jackals who eat primarily deer and elk.


Here is a good example right here. The Jackals attempting to take down this antelope but can only succeed in mutilating its hooves, legs and rear while its still alive. Thats coyotes but with deer.

Here is a pack of coyotes taking their chance with a buck:

(Screw this, google images of coyotes taking down bucks and you’ll find it)

And as you see, they take days to kill it when wolves can easily kill bucks.

So I literally think the coyote has just became the North American Jackal of all time. The wolf is the king Jackal while the coyote is in the same rank as the African Jackal.

[Hardcastle]

Apr 6, 2023 13:24:54 GMT Wyatt said:

Apr 6, 2023 11:50:11 GMT Hardcastle said:

They are jackals. Prairie jackals aka American Jackals. "Coyote" is just some woo-woo native American word.

I go a step further and argue the wolf is also a jackal. The "king jackal". They come from a long line of Jackals and differ from the real pack hunting dogs (like African wild dogs, dholes and extinct dogs like xenocyon, aenocyon, canis armbrusteri, canis Chiliensis, et al). The wolf is a jackal that learned to adapt and become an apex predator pack canine but it is still kind of clumsy and bad at it and retains jackal characteristics.

Agreed. Wolves also retain jackal characteristics in their pack structure and how they function. But wolves have evolved enough into their evolutionary form that nature wanted them to be that they can actually decently take down white-tailed deer. There are videos of coyotes and jackals taking hours at best or days/weeks at worst to take down a buck. Where as if it was a wolf that deer would be butchered and already eaten. Wolves are basically large, pack hunting jackals who eat primarily deer and elk.


Here is a good example right here. The Jackals attempting to take down this antelope but can only succeed in mutilating its hooves, legs and rear while its still alive. Thats coyotes but with deer.

Here is a pack of coyotes taking their chance with a buck:

(Screw this, google images of coyotes taking down bucks and you’ll find it)

And as you see, they take days to kill it when wolves can easily kill bucks.

So I literally think the coyote has just became the North American Jackal of all time. The wolf is the king Jackal while the coyote is in the same rank as the African Jackal.

Yep. It's weird you are talking about this now, I literally just wrote a chapter for my book (a rough draft anyway) about the "Jackal king" (the wolf). No one I know of has really noticed this observation before; that the wolf is actually a big jackal, but it holds up in so many ways.

[ophio]

Ye especially how the steppe wolf and indian wolf goes back to being coyote like while the eastern coyote and eastern wolf are moving to be more wolf like. A lot of intermediates between wolf and jackal.

golden jackal get punked by eagle. Imo I still think the coyote is a step above these guys

[CoolJohnson]

Apr 6, 2023 22:18:07 GMT ophio said:

Ye especially how the steppe wolf and indian wolf goes back to being coyote like while the eastern coyote and eastern wolf are moving to be more wolf like. A lot of intermediates between wolf and jackal.

golden jackal get punked by eagle. Imo I still think the coyote is a step above these guys

If I am correct, aren't Caucasus wolves more related to European wolves?

This includes both behaviour and genetics.

[ophio]

Apr 6, 2023 23:29:18 GMT CoolJohnson said:

Apr 6, 2023 22:18:07 GMT ophio said:

Ye especially how the steppe wolf and indian wolf goes back to being coyote like while the eastern coyote and eastern wolf are moving to be more wolf like. A lot of intermediates between wolf and jackal.

golden jackal get punked by eagle. Imo I still think the coyote is a step above these guys

If I am correct, aren't Caucasus wolves more related to European wolves?

This includes both behaviour and genetics.

Yea they are an intergrade between middle eastern and european wolves. Probably more european looking in the caucasus mountains where the environment closely resembles europe compared to the middle east.