The Trouble With Wolves Discussion

[Deleted]

It saddens me that so many ranchers are like those in the documentary. 
Elk and deer and bison if they don’t have wolves just basically fall apart because coyotes barely do anything except to deer, and even the bare minimum and wolves are the only predator that will keep picking off the herds. They course the herd and test, and then comes the kill. Saying “the elk were far greater back then” is not good. Its bad because herbivores without predators continue to starve themselves and ruin the ecosystem. 
I’d love to thank that rancher couple which knew how important wolves were, and then they supervised their herd, along with getting a cattle breed that can fend for themselves. Many ranchers think predators are supposed to have an invisible boundary between livestock and their average prey item. Large ungulates are what wolves constantly harvest, and cows are that, a large ungulate. Wolf packs would rather go after livestock because its easier than getting trampled by a bison or a moose. Its simple.

[Hardcastle]

Yeah that couple were cool, that is how I'd run a farm too. Choose more primal predator savvy cattle, and just adapt to the fact there are wolves (or in my case, feral dogs - but around here feral dogs can be as big or bigger than wolves).

Farmers here for the most part are a lot like that old dude, or worse, just want to kill absolutely everything. They even used to shoot wedge tailed eagles and claim they killed their livestock, which is bullshit. Shoot roos because they're eating the precious grass, etc etc. When farmers take on that more holistic mentality of "being in harmony with nature" they actually get better results, it's pure old fashioned ignorance and stupidity the way many of them operate. You can still kill things, but the idea you need to remove them completely is detrimental to everything, including the farmer himself.

On the other side you have city people who think there shouldn't even be grazing country, not understanding that grazing country is actually wilderness and the more grazing country the more habitat for wild animals. Remove it and replace it with "vegan" crops and housing estates for hippies and etc and you actually harm the animals far worse than if you just shot them instead.

[Deleted]

Apr 2, 2023 11:40:01 GMT Hardcastle said:

Yeah that couple were cool, that is how I'd run a farm too. Choose more primal predator savvy cattle, and just adapt to the fact there are wolves (or in my case, feral dogs - but around here feral dogs can be as big or bigger than wolves).

Farmers here for the most part are a lot like that old dude, or worse, just want to kill absolutely everything. They even used to shoot wedge tailed eagles and claim they killed their livestock, which is bullshit. Shoot roos because they're eating the precious grass, etc etc. When farmers take on that more holistic mentality of "being in harmony with nature" they actually get better results, it's pure old fashioned ignorance and stupidity the way many of them operate. You can still kill things, but the idea you need to remove them completely is detrimental to everything, including the farmer himself.

On the other side you have city people who think there shouldn't even be grazing country, not understanding that grazing country is actually wilderness and the more grazing country the more habitat for wild animals. Remove it and replace it with "vegan" crops and housing estates for hippies and etc and you actually harm the animals far worse than if you just shot them instead.

Yeah, the old dudes issue is just that he shot a wolf that had nothing to do with his livestock depredations. He shot the first wolf he saw, and being pissed is justified, ignoring the city people.

Wolves and feral dogs are harder to fend off with LGD’s. Because the issue is that if they wanna go in the pen with the livestock, they’ll do it regardless. With coyotes and bears and other predators, all it takes is a barking charging dog and they’ll be out.

[Deleted]

Apr 2, 2023 11:40:01 GMT Hardcastle said:

Yeah that couple were cool, that is how I'd run a farm too. Choose more primal predator savvy cattle, and just adapt to the fact there are wolves (or in my case, feral dogs - but around here feral dogs can be as big or bigger than wolves).

Farmers here for the most part are a lot like that old dude, or worse, just want to kill absolutely everything. They even used to shoot wedge tailed eagles and claim they killed their livestock, which is bullshit. Shoot roos because they're eating the precious grass, etc etc. When farmers take on that more holistic mentality of "being in harmony with nature" they actually get better results, it's pure old fashioned ignorance and stupidity the way many of them operate. You can still kill things, but the idea you need to remove them completely is detrimental to everything, including the farmer himself.

On the other side you have city people who think there shouldn't even be grazing country, not understanding that grazing country is actually wilderness and the more grazing country the more habitat for wild animals. Remove it and replace it with "vegan" crops and housing estates for hippies and etc and you actually harm the animals far worse than if you just shot them instead.

And that old man also had the mentality that the wolves were ruining things for him when in fact it was helping the ecosystem. Like how he got upset at the elk being chased off by the wolves, but thats actually a good thing. Elk and deer become so overpopulated than what they need to be and that affects their own species, many were starving and this affected the vegetation and the environment.
Especially white-tailed deer, but also elk due to being larger.