Wolf vs Cougar

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

So after all this evidence, there is no doubt that Cougar >>>> Gray Wolf. To end, this is a video from one of my best channels on YouTube, that goes in line with my argument: 

[CoolJohnson]

Nov 16, 2023 13:34:55 GMT PumAcinonyx SuperCat said:

So, it is universally agreed that wolf packs >> cougars, and that in the typical one-on-one scenario, the wolf (lone wolf) doesn't stand much of a chance 

That is the summary of large fields vs. canids.

[lincoln]

Pro cougar evidence: www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjw-7f7_dKCAxWLl2oFHRotBIk4FBAWegQICxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kuow.org%2Fstories%2Fin-a-battle-of-apex-predators-cougars-are-killing-wolves-at-a-surprising-rate&usg=AOvVaw0fcW2bBk8vxWoLflTq1rM6&opi=89978449

pro wolf evidence: www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiKsLHM_tKCAxX_nGoFHcp6Dpg4KBAWegQIFBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Frealtree.com%2Fthe-realblog-with-Stephanie-Mallory%2FWolves-May-Be-Responsible-for-Cutting-Mountain-Lion-Population-in-Half-in-Greater-Yellowstone-Region&usg=AOvVaw204E5omZCOH6txu2C6yoDT&opi=89978449

[s]

Male Puma Vs Wolf is just predation. Female Puma Vs Wolf is fairer.

[Bolushi]

Nov 20, 2023 19:54:44 GMT s said:

Male Puma Vs Wolf is just predation. Female Puma Vs Wolf is fairer.

I would argue that a wolf could definitely persecute a male puma and harass it, make it tree, kind of like a hound does. So it can "win" a natural encounter. 
Female puma against big strong lugger wolf, tossup for sure, tbh I think I favor the cat still but I'm not entirely sure.

[s]

Nov 20, 2023 20:02:35 GMT Bolushi said:

Nov 20, 2023 19:54:44 GMT s said:

Male Puma Vs Wolf is just predation. Female Puma Vs Wolf is fairer.

I would argue that a wolf could definitely persecute a male puma and harass it, make it tree, kind of like a hound does. So it can "win" a natural encounter. 
Female puma against big strong lugger wolf, tossup for sure, tbh I think I favor the cat still but I'm not entirely sure.

Intimidating =/= actually fighting. I agree on the rest though.

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

Not, really about "Cougar vs. Wolf", but I felt this is a good thread to post it, since it's still about "Cougar vs. Canid."

Here, we have an account of a cougar killing an experienced cougar dog (a mongrel dog, to be precise) in the same manner as a cougar killed a wolf in the Thomas Nuttall account: leaping from a tree and instantly killing it.

The dog's name was Dick, and it belonged to a Mr. J. Cecil Smith. It was touted as the champion cougar dog of British Columbia, and there were but few people who didn't know about him. His death even caused grief among people, "from Victoria to Rivers Inlet."

The part that I'm really interested in is that he is said to have "done battle" with cougars 127 times, getting killed in the last one, which, technically speaking, wasn't a fight, as the cougar caught him by surprise.

But I don’t think Dick would have had much of a chance even if it hadn't been jumped, because the cougar was described as a "GIGANTIC MALE cougar."

Later on, the article said that he had "been the match for 126 cougars" in 126 battles.

Hardcastle and Bolushi , what do you think about this? What does "had been the match for..." imply to you?

Does it suggest that it was able to seriously wound or hang in a fight with cougars consistently?

Now, whether Dick worked with other dogs in his battles against cougars wasn't mentioned. And he's not explicitly stated to have killed any cougar, but "did battle with..." and "had been the match for..." sounds to me like he wasn't just chasing cougars up trees and barking at them until his owner arrived to shoot the cat.

If that's what he had been doing all his life, I don’t think "did battle with..." would have been a good way to describe his life career.

Sounds more like he could engage cougars and not get killed. Doesn’t mean he killed them, but he could hang with them in battle.

And this would be quite telling considering that BC is home to some of the biggest cougars in the world (there, 90-95 kg specimens are frequently found).

I really don't know how dogs like Dick are used, but do you guys think there's a possibility that he could have physically tangled with cougars in his career (like Smuts of Samuel Baker) ?

I'm not as great at dissecting or discussing "Cougar vs Dog" fights as you guys and Menvidas (grippingwhiteness ) are, maybe because dogs aren't my strong point, but I'm particularly interested in this Dick case, I'm curious to know if he could have really fought with cougars from one of the largest North American populations.

You can read the full article about Dick in Outdoor Life in these pages: 





Taken From: A Famous Cougar Dog's Last Fight (Pages 51-52) 


The picture of the cougar that killed Dick is shown on page 52. It's in black-and-white, but if you can zoom in, you'd see that the cougar was REALLY big.

Hell, even the dog's owner described it as "GIGANTIC", so we can have an idea of how large it would have been.

I'm under the impression that it would have killed Dick even if the dog wasn't ambushed.

But what do you guys think about this article?

[Hardcastle]

It's extremely difficult to make out the shape of the dog in either of those 2 photos, looks more like a baby bear in the second photo but I'm not sure where the shape of its head begins and ends. An alternative "refocussing" of my eyes indicates the dog is almost like a setter mix or possibly newfoundland mix.

Without being able to see the dog I'm a little in the dark but from the words I would assume the dog worked as a cur that harassed and distracted and tree'd cougars to be shot. This is still often referred to as "battling" and even "fighting" by the people who engage in this style of hunting. And the dog MAY be a plucky character that does bite the pumas and "scrap" with them to persuade them, but with a priority on self preservation and evasive footwork.

Might be worth reading my breakdown on some of Theodore Roosevelt's puma-dogging escapades here-
www.tapatalk.com/groups/bestiary/domestic-dogs-working-wild-carnivores-t1347.html