Wolf vs Cougar

[Deleted]

In an ambush the cougar wins but the wolf wins if its calculated.

[Bolushi]

A wolf can grind out a victory but if it's jumped on in a close quarters it is done.

[Deleted]

What typa' wolf?

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[Bolushi]

Mar 27, 2023 21:41:35 GMT @ling said:

What typa' wolf?

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Mackenzie Valley lugger wolf is the most combat-adapted specimen of wolf. So, best representation of the wolf here.
These are Eurasian wolves I believe but the "lugger wolf" is the large male in the front. For MV wolves they will be around 125lbs. Exceptional ones can be 130. Anything above that is more record size. Even 130 is pushing it as many 115-120lb wolves are lugger wolves while the 100-110lb wolves are actually running.

[lincoln]

What’s the size difference?

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2023 18:12:15 GMT @haileyspino said:

[mention]ophio[/mention]
[mention]Bolushi[/mention]
[mention]Dale Earnfart[/mention]
[mention]menvidas[/mention]
[mention]BoB[/mention] bruh you’re literally worth less than the shitstains on public toilets. i dont feel like wasting my time on a subhuman dirty fuck like you anymore. you smell like skunk shit and whale piss, faggot

we have ur ip btw

[Bolushi]

Apr 1, 2023 18:36:25 GMT @ling said:

Apr 1, 2023 18:12:15 GMT @haileyspino said:

[mention]ophio[/mention]
[mention]Bolushi[/mention]
[mention]Dale Earnfart[/mention]
[mention]menvidas[/mention]
[mention]BoB[/mention] bruh you’re literally worth less than the shitstains on public toilets. i dont feel like wasting my time on a subhuman dirty fuck like you anymore. you smell like skunk shit and whale piss, faggot

we have ur ip btw

Yes but evidently he has figured out the power of magic? Like, where him and his IPs are immaterial?

[Deleted]

-

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[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

So, it is universally agreed that wolf packs >> cougars, and that in the typical one-on-one scenario, the wolf (lone wolf) doesn't stand much of a chance.

But the question: just how much of a mismatch is this in the puma's favour? Just how one-sided does "Cougar vs Wolf" become when the canid doesn't have the help of its pack? 

You are about to get your answer! 

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

First off, the cougar is stated to be physically superior to ANY member of the Canidae family in America, wild or domestic.

In spite of this, the cat is as intimidated by just one barking dog as it is by a boisterous pack.

A theory has been suggested that the reason for this behaviour is that cougars have a deep ancestral fear of wolf packs.

Since there is a scarcity of cougar-wolf interactions in scientific literature, it is reasonable to assume that this aversion to canids, by cougars, is of evolutionary origin: 





Taken From: Cougar! (Pages 88-89)

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

Accounts of wolf-cougar interactions are uncommon, but it is undeniable that in virtually every instance of combat, the cat comes out on top. 

Jim Bob Tinsley, states that wolves are perhaps the greatest enemies of cougars, and that few animals can survive the onslaught of a voracious wolf pack. 

The former curator of the Department of Mammals, U. S. National Museum, Frederick W. True disagreed with a statement made by Pennant that the wolf is fodder to the cougar.

However, Frederick True still noted that the museum of the Royal Society of London had on display, the skin of a cougar that had been killed not too long after it (the cat) had killed a wolf: 



Taken From: Cougar! (Page 92)

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

Thomas Nuttall, in 1819, conducted somewhat of a scientific exploration in Arkansas territory, and he relates an incident in which a cougar killed a deer, a dog, and a wolf.

A hunting party observed one of their dogs to have gone missing. Searching to no avail, they continued on their way.

While on the way, another of their dogs, by means of scent, led them to a tree beneath which the missing dog lay dead, alongside a deer and a WOLF. 

It seemed that the cougar had killed the deer, and after eating to its satisfaction, decided to climb up a tree and monitor the remainder on the ground below.


When the wolf and dog (presumably at different times) had arrived to scavenge, the cougar jumped from the tree and killed them: 





Taken From: A journal of travels into the Arkansas territory (Pages 149-150)

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

Research has always shown that while wolf packs dominate cougars, stealing their kills and even killing them, one-on-one confrontations almost always, if not always, go in the cat's favour. 


Here are some accounts I posted on Quora just over a year ago: 


1) Female Mexican Grey Wolf is believed to have been killed by a cougar:  Autopsy Indicates Lion Killed Wolf


2) Cougars killed collared wolves in Bitterroot: Mountain lions kill collared wolves in Bitterroot


3) Expert Jim Akenson says that wolves need to rely on the pack to kill a cougar, but are doomed in one-on-one conflicts: Turf wars in Idaho's wilderness


4) Expert Douglas Smith says that ‘’a lone wolf is a bagatelle for a 160-pound male cougar’’: In Yellowstone, It's a Carnivore Competition 


5) Account from THE CANADIAN FIELD-NATURALIST. Three wolves are killed by cougars, 2 in Montana and 1 in Alberta. In the third case, a wolf accidentally ran into a cougar on an old farm shed. 


The wolf ran for its life, but the cougar chased after it, caught up with it, and slammed the life out of it:
: Gray Wolves, Canis lupus, Killed by Cougars, Puma concolor, and a Grizzly Bear, Ursus arctos, in Montana, Alberta, and Wyoming

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

It's remarkable that cougars can hold their own against more than one wolf should need be. Small packs of wolves have been observed leaving a kill the moment a cougar showed up to reclaim it: 

A recent National Geographic show called "Cougar vs. Wolf" featured cougar tracker Boone Smith looking for cougar/wolf interactions in the Bitterroots of Montana. According to the documentary, Smith found cougars would win out defending their kills when the number of wolves in any pack (or interaction) was low. A single wolf, or a small wolf pack, tended to leave cougar kills once the cougar showed up. Not only that, but dead wolves killed by cougars have been found in the Jackson Hole study as well as the Bitterroots. Smith shows a wolf killed by a lion in the NG show. If you haven’t caught these two shows, I highly recommend them.

Taken From: The Mysterious Cougar

[PumAcinonyx SuperCat]

"But the cougar ambushed the wolf" is a futile argument that some wolfaboos may try to make. Fortunately, there is information on ground to counter that. 

It's funny how people like that don't say stuff like "When the wolves killed the cougar, they did it as a pack. Why didn't they face the cougar one-on-one? That's unfair, wolves are cowardly!" 

Apparently, cowardice only applies when a cougar "ambushes a wolf to kill it." But it doesn't apply when a pack of 7-11 wolves gang up to attack a female cougar with her kittens instead of taking turns to engage her singlehandedly. Food for thought. 

Anyway, the "the cougar ambushed the wolf argument" is TOTALLY null and void because I tell you as a matter of fact that cougars DO NOT need to ambush wolves to kill them. Wolves are NOT ambush-worthy.

The fact cougars do it just means they do it, it doesn't mean they can't do without it. 

And here, with my trump card on "Cougar vs. Wolf", the most impressive feat I am aware that a cougar has pulled off in interspecific conflict (of course, that is aside from the countless dubious and silly accounts of cougars killing grizzly bears, which if they were actually true, would be more impressive than this one), we have a cougar killing THREE wolves in combat: 

Franklin Welles Calkins writes of an account that was related to him by Felix Michaud. He states that he learned from him "that the great cat’s worst enemy is the gray wolf—"buffalo wolf,” Michaud ealled it— Canis Americanis." 

See the incident here: 

From Felix Michaud, of whom I have spoken, I first learned that the great cat’s worst enemy is the gray wolf—"buffalo wolf,” Michaud ealled it— Canis Americanis. These animals, hunting in packs and catching sight or scent of the cougar, will invariably give chase—not only because driven by hunger but from that venomous animosity current between dog and eat. By force of superior speed and numbers the wolves sometimes succeed in pulling down and devouring the bigger animal, despite its fighting capacity. This calamity usually befalls the cougar in winter time, when it is compelled to go far afield in search of food, and when its tracks are easily followed over the snow. Should the quarry succeed in gaining a tree its fate, in bitter cold weather, will still be very uncertain; for the wolves, unless called off by an easier chase, will watch, in a restless state of action which keeps their own legs limber, until the cougar’s feet are frozen, and the animal, powerless to cling, falls into their waiting jaws. Thus the lion has been killed minus tail, ears, and even several of its toes, lost in standing such a siege. But the wolves sometimes suffer. One of Michaud’s mates once found the fresh carcasses of THREE mangled wolves upon the snow, also the tracks of several retreating wolves and of the retiring but victorious cougar.

Taken From: ABOUT THE COUGAR (Page 454) 


Depiction of a confrontation: 




Wolves were stated to tree cougars, then wait at the base of the tree until the cat's feet were frozen, so that it could no longer maintain its balance. The cat would lose its grip and meet its doom at the jaws of its eternal enemy, Canis lupus.