Your biggest rival on the internet

[lincoln]

Hardcastle Bolushi @ling Methane CoolJohnson PumAcinonyx SuperCat

just curious

[Bolushi]

I've been rivals with a few smart people, and now am friends with those people, like Alex Sonnberg. That's a good, smart guy. People like that, those are rivals.
Hammerhead, Masood Rahimi & Supercat do not register as rivals, even though they may be the "biggest" opposition. Whenever I exchange or have exchanged words with them I just have to ring my hands due to how inept they are. There have always been dumb people around but in the "good ol' days" on Quora there were more intelligent people willing to listen to logic and reason and debate points etc. etc. etc. even if they didn't really understand the topic.
Maybe I'd put Ling in the "smart rival" category. Although Ling pretty much went "oh... I didn't know anything about this so I'm going to keep my mouth shut. Sound good? Yes."
Those are what could be considered "rivals", it appears to me vast majority of intelligent people are lost, moved on to new things or got banned no matter where they were. More of them go away everyday. So the only enemies (not rivals, too dumb) I have are very new very inexperienced insufferable individuals.

So basically "there aren't any".

[Hardcastle]

My first rival was LCM1, a british great white shark fan who I debated with where I was in favour of the killer whale. Even though he was on the dumb loser side of the debate, he wasn't really a dumb loser. He was just really passionate about sharks and had heavy lifting up hill to try and argue his case. I think I was lucky to begin my animal debating "career" on such an obvious winning side. It made it easier than it should have been debating LCM1, and LCM made it harder than it should have been debating KW vs GWS. But that got some good stuff out of me. I can't even remember the small details of the debate that well (it was literally in 2001-2002), but I remember the general vibe around the shark attacks board was I was destroying him, the pro-GWS side of the debate, on the board in general, basically died in debates between me and LCM.

I then moved on to arguing lions over tigers. I can't recall my rivals in that debate, even though it went on for years and was fiery as hell. The reason, I think, is Tiger fans are so innately stupid most of the time. The animal itself isn't stupid, and actually the matchup is really close in reality, BUT tiger fans are overwhelmingly extremely low-IQ douchebags. I actually probably peaked in "respect" when I was arguing pro-lion against the tiger. Everyone except for a few tiger douches loved me, lauded my posts and sung my praises. I was widely considered on a short list of best posters among a now huge roster of posters.
BUT, 1 noteworthy person started hating me at this time - Taipan. He didn't have arguments, he was considered a nasty worthless troll piece of shit at this time, by everyone. He was actually being suspended and banned and shit because his only argument would be like cursing people out angrily.
I would then go on to argue that bears beat big cats, which threw some lion fans off, I was still a lion fan and didn't even really care about bears (which I still don't), I just conceded basically that bears beat lions. And this is when I started breaking down why cats actually kind of suck at fighting due to innately disliking conflict as ambush predators and having poor stamina and etc etc. I think this pissed a fair few people off. I then also took on the legendary wolverine. Funnily enough one of my favourite animals, but it didn't sit right with me how people were so fooled with the wolverine's "bluffing" to persuade rival predators off kills. There was a Norwegian guy named "boxingman" I clashed with on this.
The funny thing about boxingman though, was he had a staffordshire bull terrier, and in defending the wolverine he'd talk about how his staffordshire bullterrier could beat up a german shepherd or whatever, and to him that was strong evidence that a wolverine could beat up a wolf. The wolverine was like an SBT in his mind, the wolf like a german shepherd.

Little did he know, I knew everything about fighting dogs. I wasn't even talking about them at this point. It was a phase I had gone through years before, but I was over it and living in a city apartment with no dogs, fishing and camping on the weekends and obsessed with "nature". I think it shocked everyone, including Boxingman, when I was like "oh your SBT would beat the fuck out of a wolverine, and a wolf, that's immaterial".
Now in hindsight, I might have been wrong about the wolf, but either way it would be the catalyst that would set me on a path of being "a dog guy". During my fighting dog phase (between about 11 and 14 I guess) I had established in my mind through all my research (mostly books by Carl Semencic and Richard Stratton) that they were the ultimate fighters in the animal kingdom. It basically wasn't fair, they were JUST fighters with no other consideration in their evolution for anything else. I talked about how the wolverine is bluffing with the threat of scratches, and bull terriers don't care about scratches.

Anyway, it turned out that pro-dog arguments go down VERY badly in general on forums filled with nature/wild animal lovers. Dogs represented non-nature, and surely the mighty and noble natural wild animals are superior. "Yes, sure, just not at fighting" was my response, and that made everyone want to kill me.

This is where/when my biggest rivals of all time came into the picture. 2 at once - Gato Gordo, a cat fan, and Reddhole, a wolf fan. Those 2 guys went at me HARD for my assertion that domestic dogs can beat up wild animals. So hard they kind of bonded in their shared distaste for me.
My rivalry with Gato Gordo, a self confessed fat mexican guy, was legendary. Around this time however, another forum opened up, and that "animal face off", on the official discovery channel website, based on a tv show about animal fights. You can look it up. Gato Gordo then had to divide his attention between me and another dog supporter- Chazio. Chazio was a beast specifically with the argentinian dogo argentino scene. I was actually kind of "hypothetical" at that point with "gladitorial dogs" (as I called them) beating any wild animal at equal weights due to being focused fighting machines, and chazio actually introduced us to the fact dogo argentinos are in real life beating the fuck out of cougars on the daily. Chazio was a monster. He kicked Gato Gordo's ass, frankly. Even then I was kind of arrogant and thought I was the best, but reading chazio vs gato I would be like "well... god damn". Things I struggled with against gato he just blasted him out of the water pretty quick.
I'd be curious to know actually who Gato considered his greatest rival. It was definitely me and Chazio as the top 2, no doubt about it (even though later he actually clashed with reddhole as well), but whether me or chazio took number 1 (in his heart of hearts, might even be the opposite of what he actually says) I have no idea.

I think me and gato had a more extensive rivalry, exchanged more words, for sure. Chazio was a flash in the pan. But full respect, he crushed.

Me and reddhole have an interesting history. It was hostile for a long time, me arguing "pitbulls" and similar beat wolves, and him being hardcore team wolf. I think I was beating him for years at first but he actually kind of came on strong at the end. I'd even say he was winning when we lost touch. But he was winning and also simultaneously dramatically improving his perception of gripping dogs. In fact, in the last year or so he purchased a legit line female APBT and had really come around on appreciating pitbulls and similar. Later on I briefly encountered him and he basically told me he had altered his views on ME, without saying necessarily he thinks dogs beat wolves or anything like that, but he indicated his view on the things I had been saying had changed and he now definitely placed me well above gato and taipan.

Gato also confessed he respected me a lot and also demonstrated a very solid respect that he had gained for dogo argentinos (at least). In trying to combat the pro-dogo stuff, he actually dug deep into investigating them, and he came away with a lot of respect. He spoke spanish and it allowed him to actually find sources I couldn't and it was obvious in the end that he was a bit like "...oh". I believe his position near the end had reduced to just noting that some pumas are too big, don't quote me on that exactly but I distinctly recall his final position had reduced so much and swung so dogo-flatteringly I couldn't even disagree.


By the time I came back from a big hiatus and rejoined "carnivora" (as grazier and then dale earnfart), I'd say I didn't have any rivals. I was doing trolling victory laps at that point. No one worthy remained. Gato and Reddhole are my two greatest rivals, and Reddhole was "greater" in that he was better, but my biggest rival was without a doubt Gato. We must have exchanged hundreds of thousands of words, no exaggeration.

[Deleted]

Mar 7, 2023 17:50:05 GMT Hardcastle said:

My first rival was LCM1, a british great white shark fan who I debated with where I was in favour of the killer whale. Even though he was on the dumb loser side of the debate, he wasn't really a dumb loser. He was just really passionate about sharks and had heavy lifting up hill to try and argue his case. I think I was lucky to begin my animal debating "career" on such an obvious winning side. It made it easier than it should have been debating LCM1, and LCM made it harder than it should have been debating KW vs GWS. But that got some good stuff out of me. I can't even remember the small details of the debate that well (it was literally in 2001-2002), but I remember the general vibe around the shark attacks board was I was destroying him, the pro-GWS side of the debate, on the board in general, basically died in debates between me and LCM.

I then moved on to arguing lions over tigers. I can't recall my rivals in that debate, even though it went on for years and was fiery as hell. The reason, I think, is Tiger fans are so innately stupid most of the time. The animal itself isn't stupid, and actually the matchup is really close in reality, BUT tiger fans are overwhelmingly extremely low-IQ douchebags. I actually probably peaked in "respect" when I was arguing pro-lion against the tiger. Everyone except for a few tiger douches loved me, lauded my posts and sung my praises. I was widely considered on a short list of best posters among a now huge roster of posters.
BUT, 1 noteworthy person started hating me at this time - Taipan. He didn't have arguments, he was considered a nasty worthless troll piece of shit at this time, by everyone. He was actually being suspended and banned and shit because his only argument would be like cursing people out angrily.
I would then go on to argue that bears beat big cats, which threw some lion fans off, I was still a lion fan and didn't even really care about bears (which I still don't), I just conceded basically that bears beat lions. And this is when I started breaking down why cats actually kind of suck at fighting due to innately disliking conflict as ambush predators and having poor stamina and etc etc. I think this pissed a fair few people off. I then also took on the legendary wolverine. Funnily enough one of my favourite animals, but it didn't sit right with me how people were so fooled with the wolverine's "bluffing" to persuade rival predators off kills. There was a Norwegian guy named "boxingman" I clashed with on this.
The funny thing about boxingman though, was he had a staffordshire bull terrier, and in defending the wolverine he'd talk about how his staffordshire bullterrier could beat up a german shepherd or whatever, and to him that was strong evidence that a wolverine could beat up a wolf. The wolverine was like an SBT in his mind, the wolf like a german shepherd.

Little did he know, I knew everything about fighting dogs. I wasn't even talking about them at this point. It was a phase I had gone through years before, but I was over it and living in a city apartment with no dogs, fishing and camping on the weekends and obsessed with "nature". I think it shocked everyone, including Boxingman, when I was like "oh your SBT would beat the fuck out of a wolverine, and a wolf, that's immaterial".
Now in hindsight, I might have been wrong about the wolf, but either way it would be the catalyst that would set me on a path of being "a dog guy". During my fighting dog phase (between about 11 and 14 I guess) I had established in my mind through all my research (mostly books by Carl Semencic and Richard Stratton) that they were the ultimate fighters in the animal kingdom. It basically wasn't fair, they were JUST fighters with no other consideration in their evolution for anything else. I talked about how the wolverine is bluffing with the threat of scratches, and bull terriers don't care about scratches.

Anyway, it turned out that pro-dog arguments go down VERY badly in general on forums filled with nature/wild animal lovers. Dogs represented non-nature, and surely the mighty and noble natural wild animals are superior. "Yes, sure, just not at fighting" was my response, and that made everyone want to kill me.

This is where/when my biggest rivals of all time came into the picture. 2 at once - Gato Gordo, a cat fan, and Reddhole, a wolf fan. Those 2 guys went at me HARD for my assertion that domestic dogs can beat up wild animals. So hard they kind of bonded in their shared distaste for me.
My rivalry with Gato Gordo, a self confessed fat mexican guy, was legendary. Around this time however, another forum opened up, and that "animal face off", on the official discovery channel website, based on a tv show about animal fights. You can look it up. Gato Gordo then had to divide his attention between me and another dog supporter- Chazio. Chazio was a beast specifically with the argentinian dogo argentino scene. I was actually kind of "hypothetical" at that point with "gladitorial dogs" (as I called them) beating any wild animal at equal weights due to being focused fighting machines, and chazio actually introduced us to the fact dogo argentinos are in real life beating the fuck out of cougars on the daily. Chazio was a monster. He kicked Gato Gordo's ass, frankly. Even then I was kind of arrogant and thought I was the best, but reading chazio vs gato I would be like "well... god damn". Things I struggled with against gato he just blasted him out of the water pretty quick.
I'd be curious to know actually who Gato considered his greatest rival. It was definitely me and Chazio as the top 2, no doubt about it (even though later he actually clashed with reddhole as well), but whether me or chazio took number 1 (in his heart of hearts, might even be the opposite of what he actually says) I have no idea.

I think me and gato had a more extensive rivalry, exchanged more words, for sure. Chazio was a flash in the pan. But full respect, he crushed.

Me and reddhole have an interesting history. It was hostile for a long time, me arguing "pitbulls" and similar beat wolves, and him being hardcore team wolf. I think I was beating him for years at first but he actually kind of came on strong at the end. I'd even say he was winning when we lost touch. But he was winning and also simultaneously dramatically improving his perception of gripping dogs. In fact, in the last year or so he purchased a legit line female APBT and had really come around on appreciating pitbulls and similar. Later on I briefly encountered him and he basically told me he had altered his views on ME, without saying necessarily he thinks dogs beat wolves or anything like that, but he indicated his view on the things I had been saying had changed and he now definitely placed me well above gato and taipan.

Gato also confessed he respected me a lot and also demonstrated a very solid respect that he had gained for dogo argentinos (at least). In trying to combat the pro-dogo stuff, he actually dug deep into investigating them, and he came away with a lot of respect. He spoke spanish and it allowed him to actually find sources I couldn't and it was obvious in the end that he was a bit like "...oh". I believe his position near the end had reduced to just noting that some pumas are too big, don't quote me on that exactly but I distinctly recall his final position had reduced so much and swung so dogo-flatteringly I couldn't even disagree.


By the time I came back from a big hiatus and rejoined "carnivora" (as grazier and then dale earnfart), I'd say I didn't have any rivals. I was doing trolling victory laps at that point. No one worthy remained. Gato and Reddhole are my two greatest rivals, and Reddhole was "greater" in that he was better, but my biggest rival was without a doubt Gato. We must have exchanged hundreds of thousands of words, no exaggeration.

I do agree that orcas beat great whites at average and max sizes, but at parity? Probably not. One, because I'm bias, and two, because there are more cases of sharks killing dolphins at similar sizes. At least that I'm aware of.

Good post btw, clearly you had quite the history with AvA forums.

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[Hardcastle]

It's weird if I started debating you now on KW vs GWS I wouldn't even know what to say. I feel like I've forgotten everything. I was so ball's deep into that matchup at the time, but my mind is kind of blank on it now. I vaguely remember talking about manoeuvrability, like how an orca can move in different directions that a GW can't, and durability, like bone vs cartilage, of course intelligence. But I honestly can't understand how we wrote thousands and thousands of words debating that topic, I can't recall where all the substance was. I probably started my "shitting on ambush specialists" angle in that debate.
I don't know if "parity" came into it.

I do remember the case that sparked it was a female killer whale killing a gw, and the shark side was all about how the shark was only 15 feet long and etc, but then the hammer dropped when we found evidence the female KW responsible was essentially a dwarf that was only 14 feet long. That took the wind out of some sails. It was all about how a 20 foot shark was TOTALLY different, like a massive "bus" much bigger than the difference of 5 feet in length would indicate, but that all fell apart when news came out the KW was unusually tiny.

Mind you, in hindsight, no doubt still much heavier than the GW. So...

[Deleted]

Mar 7, 2023 18:41:21 GMT Hardcastle said:

It's weird if I started debating you now on KW vs GWS I wouldn't even know what to say. I feel like I've forgotten everything. I was so ball's deep into that matchup at the time, but my mind is kind of blank on it now. I vaguely remember talking about manoeuvrability, like how an orca can move in different directions that a GW can't, and durability, like bone vs cartilage, of course intelligence. But I honestly can't understand how we wrote thousands and thousands of words debating that topic, I can't recall where all the substance was. I probably started my "shitting on ambush specialists" angle in that debate.
I don't know if "parity" came into it.

I do remember the case that sparked it was a female killer whale killing a gw, and the shark side was all about how the shark was only 15 feet long and etc, but then the hammer dropped when we found evidence the female KW responsible was essentially a dwarf that was only 14 feet long. That took the wind out of some sails. It was all about how a 20 foot shark was TOTALLY different, like a massive "bus" much bigger than the difference of 5 feet in length would indicate, but that all fell apart when news came out the KW was unusually tiny.

Mind you, in hindsight, no doubt still much heavier than the GW. So...

Can you link that last paragraph?

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[CoolJohnson]

I am not sure if I have a rival.

I have debated with many types of fans before, but I would'nt say that anyone of them would be considered an ultimate or penultimate enemy. Some were smarter than the others, but everybody resorts to dismissal of their opposing animal's feats. So some are just more annoying than others. A fraction were actually either smart or cunning.

The closest rival was a snow leopard fan, but it was similar to a lion fan vs tiger fan situation. I even came around to respect the Himalayan big cat. I guess it was more of an enemy turned ally situation.

[Hardcastle]

Mar 7, 2023 19:01:03 GMT @ling said:

Mar 7, 2023 18:41:21 GMT Hardcastle said:

It's weird if I started debating you now on KW vs GWS I wouldn't even know what to say. I feel like I've forgotten everything. I was so ball's deep into that matchup at the time, but my mind is kind of blank on it now. I vaguely remember talking about manoeuvrability, like how an orca can move in different directions that a GW can't, and durability, like bone vs cartilage, of course intelligence. But I honestly can't understand how we wrote thousands and thousands of words debating that topic, I can't recall where all the substance was. I probably started my "shitting on ambush specialists" angle in that debate.
I don't know if "parity" came into it.

I do remember the case that sparked it was a female killer whale killing a gw, and the shark side was all about how the shark was only 15 feet long and etc, but then the hammer dropped when we found evidence the female KW responsible was essentially a dwarf that was only 14 feet long. That took the wind out of some sails. It was all about how a 20 foot shark was TOTALLY different, like a massive "bus" much bigger than the difference of 5 feet in length would indicate, but that all fell apart when news came out the KW was unusually tiny.

Mind you, in hindsight, no doubt still much heavier than the GW. So...

Can you link that last paragraph?

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Not ignoring this, just has to wait till I have more time. It was the first recorded case of KW predation on GWS, happened off California and triggered the whole AVA subculture. But yeah I will look for it later.

[Hardcastle]

Mar 7, 2023 19:01:03 GMT @ling said:

Mar 7, 2023 18:41:21 GMT Hardcastle said:

It's weird if I started debating you now on KW vs GWS I wouldn't even know what to say. I feel like I've forgotten everything. I was so ball's deep into that matchup at the time, but my mind is kind of blank on it now. I vaguely remember talking about manoeuvrability, like how an orca can move in different directions that a GW can't, and durability, like bone vs cartilage, of course intelligence. But I honestly can't understand how we wrote thousands and thousands of words debating that topic, I can't recall where all the substance was. I probably started my "shitting on ambush specialists" angle in that debate.
I don't know if "parity" came into it.

I do remember the case that sparked it was a female killer whale killing a gw, and the shark side was all about how the shark was only 15 feet long and etc, but then the hammer dropped when we found evidence the female KW responsible was essentially a dwarf that was only 14 feet long. That took the wind out of some sails. It was all about how a 20 foot shark was TOTALLY different, like a massive "bus" much bigger than the difference of 5 feet in length would indicate, but that all fell apart when news came out the KW was unusually tiny.

Mind you, in hindsight, no doubt still much heavier than the GW. So...

Can you link that last paragraph?

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Remarkably difficult. Can search for "orca attacks killer whale california" and get pages and pages of new cases and drone videos and etc.

Finally had to find mention of it in the wayback machine.

link




Now this is saying the orca was slightly larger, so I could have misremembered that. But they are very close in length. The killer whale was an unusually small adult. There was much more discussion than this back in the day, including scientists saying her growth was stunted due to an injury at a young age, and they mention the "scarring" in that article. It wasn't a young killer whale at all, it was a fully mature whale they had been observing for decades, but one which was weirdly small. I remembered 14 feet, they'e saying 15 - 17 feet and a 14 feet Great white. I still feel like they ended up correcting that size estimate and confirming 14 feet, but I can't prove it now, there's so little on this case to be found, which is astonishing given it was the first case and SUCH a big deal with so many articles back in the day.

A key point has always been however, how utterly easily the killer whale handled this shark, like it was nothing. Darted straight over to it, flipped and incapacitated it in seconds, then swam around with it. I feel like a shark is too primitive to really understand that kind of altercation. A shark could potentially prey on a killer whale with it's trademark explode from below hit and run technique, but when confronted face to face by a killer whale it seems to have no idea what to do with itself. A killer whale can just do with it as it will.

[Deleted]

Mar 8, 2023 12:29:01 GMT Hardcastle said:

Mar 7, 2023 19:01:03 GMT @ling said:

Can you link that last paragraph?

Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk

Remarkably difficult. Can search for "orca attacks killer whale california" and get pages and pages of new cases and drone videos and etc.

Finally had to find mention of it in the wayback machine.

link




Now this is saying the orca was slightly larger, so I could have misremembered that. But they are very close in length. The killer whale was an unusually small adult. There was much more discussion than this back in the day, including scientists saying her growth was stunted due to an injury at a young age, and they mention the "scarring" in that article. It wasn't a young killer whale at all, it was a fully mature whale they had been observing for decades, but one which was weirdly small. I remembered 14 feet, they'e saying 15 - 17 feet and a 14 feet Great white. I still feel like they ended up correcting that size estimate and confirming 14 feet, but I can't prove it now, there's so little on this case to be found, which is astonishing given it was the first case and SUCH a big deal with so many articles back in the day.

A key point has always been however, how utterly easily the killer whale handled this shark, like it was nothing. Darted straight over to it, flipped and incapacitated it in seconds, then swam around with it. I feel like a shark is too primitive to really understand that kind of altercation. A shark could potentially prey on a killer whale with it's trademark explode from below hit and run technique, but when confronted face to face by a killer whale it seems to have no idea what to do with itself. A killer whale can just do with it as it will.

Oh, no I've seen that.

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[Deleted]

Mar 8, 2023 12:29:01 GMT Hardcastle said:

Mar 7, 2023 19:01:03 GMT @ling said:

Can you link that last paragraph?

Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk

Remarkably difficult. Can search for "orca attacks killer whale california" and get pages and pages of new cases and drone videos and etc.

Finally had to find mention of it in the wayback machine.

link




Now this is saying the orca was slightly larger, so I could have misremembered that. But they are very close in length. The killer whale was an unusually small adult. There was much more discussion than this back in the day, including scientists saying her growth was stunted due to an injury at a young age, and they mention the "scarring" in that article. It wasn't a young killer whale at all, it was a fully mature whale they had been observing for decades, but one which was weirdly small. I remembered 14 feet, they'e saying 15 - 17 feet and a 14 feet Great white. I still feel like they ended up correcting that size estimate and confirming 14 feet, but I can't prove it now, there's so little on this case to be found, which is astonishing given it was the first case and SUCH a big deal with so many articles back in the day.

A key point has always been however, how utterly easily the killer whale handled this shark, like it was nothing. Darted straight over to it, flipped and incapacitated it in seconds, then swam around with it. I feel like a shark is too primitive to really understand that kind of altercation. A shark could potentially prey on a killer whale with it's trademark explode from below hit and run technique, but when confronted face to face by a killer whale it seems to have no idea what to do with itself. A killer whale can just do with it as it will.

Eh. You know that image I posted in "Cool animal interactions"? The where the orca and gws were circling each other? Yeah in reality the shark was trying to stay on the orca's tail. Trying to outmanouver it just like how seals do that to sharks. I'll post an image later.

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[Deleted]

Mar 8, 2023 16:55:22 GMT @ling said:

Mar 8, 2023 12:29:01 GMT Hardcastle said:

Remarkably difficult. Can search for "orca attacks killer whale california" and get pages and pages of new cases and drone videos and etc.

Finally had to find mention of it in the wayback machine.

link




Now this is saying the orca was slightly larger, so I could have misremembered that. But they are very close in length. The killer whale was an unusually small adult. There was much more discussion than this back in the day, including scientists saying her growth was stunted due to an injury at a young age, and they mention the "scarring" in that article. It wasn't a young killer whale at all, it was a fully mature whale they had been observing for decades, but one which was weirdly small. I remembered 14 feet, they'e saying 15 - 17 feet and a 14 feet Great white. I still feel like they ended up correcting that size estimate and confirming 14 feet, but I can't prove it now, there's so little on this case to be found, which is astonishing given it was the first case and SUCH a big deal with so many articles back in the day.

A key point has always been however, how utterly easily the killer whale handled this shark, like it was nothing. Darted straight over to it, flipped and incapacitated it in seconds, then swam around with it. I feel like a shark is too primitive to really understand that kind of altercation. A shark could potentially prey on a killer whale with it's trademark explode from below hit and run technique, but when confronted face to face by a killer whale it seems to have no idea what to do with itself. A killer whale can just do with it as it will.

Eh. You know that image I posted in "Cool animal interactions"? The where the orca and gws were circling each other? Yeah in reality the shark was trying to stay on the orca's tail. Trying to outmanouver it just like how seals do that to sharks. I'll post an image later.

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- Sea Research & Conservation on Youtube

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[Hardcastle]

I did honestly mean "apart from evading the attack". I know they can do that, and indeed they all completely leave the area after orcas move in. My point was more I don't think they can retaliate in an agressive combative way when persecuted. I don't think they really have "defending themselves" or "counter attacking" in their repertoire. But evading yes. Predating yes. Direct frontal conflict no.

[Deleted]

Mar 8, 2023 20:10:44 GMT Hardcastle said:

I did honestly mean "apart from evading the attack". I know they can do that, and indeed they all completely leave the area after orcas move in. My point was more I don't think they can retaliate in an agressive combative way when persecuted. I don't think they really have "defending themselves" or "counter attacking" in their repertoire. But evading yes. Predating yes. Direct frontal conflict no.

"Leave me alone pesky orcas!" "My jaws are dangerous too!"

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