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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2023 21:27:52 GMT
www.humanesociety.org/sites/default/files/docs/Cougar-Livestock-6.Mar_.19-Final.pdfSays here cougars take some but not a lot of cattle and that the USDA has very inflated figures on how many cougar take cattle, that their numbers come from cattle owner reports and aren't verified. The numbers of cougar reported to predate on cattle from 4 state departments that verify reports have signficantly lower numbers than those from the USDA. Unfortunately the above PDF provides the USDA's inflated numbers. (The USDA even has figures based on cattle owner reports for grizzly bear predation in states where grizzly bear doesn't even exist.) However even the USDA's inflated numbers are still quite low for cougar predation on cattle, and with cattle losses from some other predators being a lot higher than for cougar. Cougar take more sheep than cattle due to sheep bodysize as well as weaker defensive strategy, although sheep losses to cougar are still relatively small. Cougar are found in 16 US states and the inflated USDA numbers report approx. 13,000 cattle kills by cougar in 2015 out of a total 280,000 losses by predators. If this is the significantly inflated number then it's really far less, plus there is no distinction between the taking of calves and adult cattle so I suppose it has to be assumed 99% are calves. So it seems there is not much evidence of cougars going for adults. Is this a confirmed kill or scavenged? www.reddit.com/r/Pumaconcolor/comments/m0olgk/cougar_with_cattle_kill_in_new_mexico/Maybe one of those 4 state agencies that actually verify cattle-owner reports has something on adult vs calf takes. And their overall numbers would also be way more accurate. Personally I assume adult cattle isn't a regular part of the cougar's diet and that any adult cattle takes probably happen but are exceptional, kind of like the lioness that took the adult buffalo cow that was mentioned in the Lioness vs Male Jaguar thread. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2023 21:59:17 GMT
Maybe one of those 4 state agencies that actually verify cattle-owner reports has something on adult vs calf takes. And their overall numbers would also be way more accurate. Personally I assume adult cattle isn't a regular part of the cougar's diet and that any adult cattle takes probably happen but are exceptional, kind of like the lioness that took the adult buffalo cow that was mentioned in the Lioness vs Male Jaguar thread. If cougar vs cow was like lioness vs buffalo cow that speaks mega great for the cougar. Lionesses taking them isn't rare. |
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Post by CoolJohnson on Feb 26, 2023 22:17:27 GMT
Maybe one of those 4 state agencies that actually verify cattle-owner reports has something on adult vs calf takes. And their overall numbers would also be way more accurate. Personally I assume adult cattle isn't a regular part of the cougar's diet and that any adult cattle takes probably happen but are exceptional, kind of like the lioness that took the adult buffalo cow that was mentioned in the Lioness vs Male Jaguar thread. Are there anymore studies? Hardcastle mentioned this. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Feb 26, 2023 22:51:01 GMT
There are studies. I will look when I can. There seem to be quite a few from Brazil. I remember one in particular which actually kept track of cattle losses to jaguars and pumas, it had different ages of cattle and showed how predation on cattle tapered off with jaguars when the cattle started maturing, lots of kills on calves, some on yearlings, then very few on cattle above 2 years old, but then a couple on much older cattle. With pumas it was just under 6 months and then nothing. This was one study. I have heard of puma killing adult cattle but they seem to be random exceptional cases, usually with some small holding hobby cow or similar. Generally speaking cattle ranchers don't care about pumas or take them into consideration. Jaguars yes. Wolves very much yes. Tigers and lions absolutely (can't seriously try and run a cattle operation in lion or tiger country). Leopards it actually varies. In most of Africa cattle ranchers don't care about leopards, but in Iran they do and lose quite a few. Depends on the cattle too. In Brazil Jaguars decimate Bos Indicus cattle but switching to Iberian Bos Taurus has seen many ranchers start recording no annual losses for the first time. Not on adults or calves or anything because the bulls actively protect the herd.
With hogs there are studies from Texas and South America that show puma feed almost exclusively on baby hogs and even avoid areas where hogs exist entirely or change their natural behaviour to forage when hogs aren't active. "Who's afraid of the big bad boar?" Is the name of the south American study.
I have heard in Florida pumas DO target hogs more often, even adults but I'm sure they aren't significant adults. If you watch loads of hog hunting videos like I do you soon notice most hogs aren't shit but SOME are then total nightmares. Pumas I'm sure are avoiding those quite shrewdly, in fact I've read a study indicating jaguars are too with a lot of care.
Leopards have some decent cases against boars in india but still get shit whipped a lot and also avoid the baddest boars.
Again wolves actually kill lots of boars, they are the main source of food for wolves in some areas, but when you understand how wolves operate they aren't actually taking on healthy adults in engaged battles.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2023 23:34:50 GMT
Maybe one of those 4 state agencies that actually verify cattle-owner reports has something on adult vs calf takes. And their overall numbers would also be way more accurate. Personally I assume adult cattle isn't a regular part of the cougar's diet and that any adult cattle takes probably happen but are exceptional, kind of like the lioness that took the adult buffalo cow that was mentioned in the Lioness vs Male Jaguar thread. If cougar vs cow was like lioness vs buffalo cow that speaks mega great for the cougar. Lionesses taking them isn't rare. "Lioness" as in lone lioness, not "lionesses". |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2023 23:41:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2023 23:45:07 GMT
If cougar vs cow was like lioness vs buffalo cow that speaks mega great for the cougar. Lionesses taking them isn't rare. "Lioness" as in lone lioness, not "lionesses". Yeah, they kill cow buffalo and it isn't rare. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2023 23:55:39 GMT
"Lioness" as in lone lioness, not "lionesses". Yeah, they kill cow buffalo and it isn't rare. Lone lioness killing healthy adult buffalo cow isn't rare? Serious? Honest enquiry but that's news to me. |
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Post by CoolJohnson on Feb 27, 2023 0:00:10 GMT
Yeah, they kill cow buffalo and it isn't rare. Lone lioness killing healthy adult buffalo cow isn't rare? Serious? Honest enquiry but that's news to me. There are some videos of female lions killing buffalo. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2023 0:10:07 GMT
Lone lioness killing healthy adult buffalo cow isn't rare? Serious? Honest enquiry but that's news to me. There are some videos of female lions killing buffalo. I've seen one YouTube video of a lone Okavango lioness (which are huge lionesses) taking a legit buffalo cow but I can't find it now, the channel owner must have taken it down. That's the only one I've seen or am aware of though. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2023 0:17:00 GMT
That family cow I was talking about that's not afraid of sleeping out with cougar even though she has the option of bedding in a shed? She doesn't give a shit about normal cougars but I bet she'd get a slightly anxious if a massive 180 lb tom was passing through the area. She'll probably never see a cougar of that proportion anyway so can remain blissfully unaware.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2023 0:30:22 GMT
I have seen numerous times lone lionesses killing cow buffalo.
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Post by Hardcastle on Feb 27, 2023 0:31:42 GMT
Notice reading through the responses, a lot of people like "oh yes your cow is just a steak to a cougar" and etc, then some other people are like "eh not really" and then go on to explain like they actually know wtf they're talking about. Most lay people tend towards assuming cattle are defenseless blobs of meat, and pumas are custom made cow killers, not really understanding either animal. Some even suggest getting livestock guardians dogs. Cattle never had livestock guardians dogs. Livestock guardians dogs evolved specifically with sheep and goats, cattle never stopped looking after themselves and defending themselves from predators and livestock guardian dogs have no historical relationship with cattle whatsoever. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2023 1:06:22 GMT
Notice reading through the responses, a lot of people like "oh yes your cow is just a steak to a cougar" and etc, then some other people are like "eh not really" and then go on to explain like they actually know wtf they're talking about. Most lay people tend towards assuming cattle are defenseless blobs of meat, and pumas are custom made cow killers, not really understanding either animal. Some even suggest getting livestock guardians dogs. Cattle never had livestock guardians dogs. Livestock guardians dogs evolved specifically with sheep and goats, cattle never stopped looking after themselves and defending themselves from predators and livestock guardian dogs have no historical relationship with cattle whatsoever. Exactly. And that's what it's like reading those dog vs cat threads on CF where catfans generically throw down against dogs while Earnfart, Brogan and Lycaon on the other side are actually explaining knowledge like they properly know something about the subject. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2023 1:16:28 GMT
I have seen numerous times lone lionesses killing cow buffalo. Nice, and I'm sure it does happen here-and-there out in the wild but it's not as if your regular lone lioness is well-equipped to perform that feat, that feat would require a special 99-percenter lioness. How I see it is few prides would be housing any lioness that has taken out a buffalo cow alone. Shouldn't this be even more exceptional than a lone male lion taking a buffalo bull because I recall seeing lone male lions downing buffallo bull relatively easiely sometimes, while I don't imagine lone lioness ever down buffalo cow easily. The one I saw the lioness had to exhibit extraordinary ju-jitsu to eventually down the cow over several minutes. |
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