Haboroteuthis vs Kronosaurus

[Deleted]

Kronosaurus wins most of the time.

[Deleted]

I thought I'd try to estimate the maximum size of Haboroteuthis. I am by no means an expert, please don't get mad.

Ok so Haboroteuthis had a crest of length of around 2.4 inches. A 25-foot long Giant squid had a crest length of around 1.8 inches.

"Measuring a ridge that runs up the front of squid beaks, Tanabe and coworkers found that Haboroteuthis had a “crest length” of about 2.4 inches. A 25-foot-long giant squid caught off New Zealand, by contrast, had a crest length of only 1.8 inches, and a Humbolt squid with a mantle length of almost five feet had a crest length of 1.9 inches. Haboroteuthis was at least comparable to these modern heavyweights. We may never know for sure exactly how large Haboroteuthis was, but, if its jaw is anything to go by, it was as big as some of today’s undersea giants."

www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/newfound-fossil-octopus-and-squid-were-giants

2.4 ÷ 1.8 = 1.3333.

1.33 x 25 = 33.325ft long for this individual.

The largest Giant squid is roughly 13m long, while the average is 5m long according to Wikipedia. So the largest individual is 2.4375x larger than the average.

This would mean that, assuming the 33.325ft long Haboroteuthis specimen is averaged sized, the largest of this species may have reached 33.325 x 2.4375 = 81.247ft in length! Damn.

All of this was just for fun. It's very unlikely that this is accurate. And P.S., I don't give a shit if that isn't how animal growth works in Cephalopods. 

[Hardcastle]

Feb 23, 2023 20:01:25 GMT @ling said:

I thought I'd try to estimate the maximum size of Haboroteuthis. I am by no means an expert, please don't get mad.

I'm about to fucking spazz right now. You call THAT a Haboroteuthis size estimate?!

[Deleted]

Feb 23, 2023 22:03:56 GMT Hardcastle said:

Feb 23, 2023 20:01:25 GMT @ling said:

I thought I'd try to estimate the maximum size of Haboroteuthis. I am by no means an expert, please don't get mad.

I'm about to fucking spazz right now. You call THAT a Haboroteuthis size estimate?!

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[Deleted]

Some other guy estimates the size of the holotype too. He got the same shit. If the only specimen found is 10m long and the average Giant squid rarely exceeds 5m, peaking at 13m, then I think that's fucking dope.

Attachments:

[Hardcastle]

I'll be honest, I'd never heard of it.

[Hardcastle]

Does it have a larger beak than giant squids and colossal squids?

[Deleted]

Feb 23, 2023 22:07:59 GMT Hardcastle said:

Does it have a larger beak than giant squids and colossal squids?

1.33 times the size of a large Giant squid (8m long - most rarely exceed 5m).

[Hardcastle]

So the beak specifically is 1.33x the size of the giant squids beak?

[Deleted]

Feb 23, 2023 22:12:53 GMT Hardcastle said:

So the beak specifically is 1.33x the size of the giant squids beak?

2.4 ÷ 1.8

[Hardcastle]

So I guess the way people are estimating haboroteuthis size would be to see what difference in overall body length a 33% increase in beak size results in among living squids? That should be fairly accurate, especially if you try different sizes and types of squids and see that they basically all come out at a similar percentage increase with that difference in beak size.

[Deleted]

Feb 23, 2023 22:20:26 GMT Hardcastle said:

So I guess the way people are estimating haboroteuthis size would be to see what difference in overall body length a 33% increase in beak size results in among living squids? That should be fairly accurate, especially if you try different sizes and types of squids and see that they basically all come out at a similar percentage increase with that difference in beak size.

Agreed but a 81ft long squid sounds crazy. Why would it need to be so big?

[Hardcastle]

I'm still trying to figure out how you are coming to that number...

Ok so you are just multiplying the length of an average giant squid by 1.33? (then extrapolating how high above the average giant squids CAN be and adding that percentage to the average haboroteuthis?). Is this correct?
If so I wouldn't assume that a beak 1.33x bigger = a squid 1.33x longer without looking into that. We'd need to measure different smaller squids and find that a beak increase of 33% consistently results in a squid that is 33% longer. That seems unlikely, a 33% beak increase may only result in a 10% length increase, or it may result in a 50% length increase. One would need to collect data on multiple different sized squids of various species to see if there's a general trend of beak upsizing resulting in a certain amount of body upsizing.

There's the additional issue ofcourse of assuming one beak is "average", when it might be way above or way below average. More beaks would be nice. But either way we could at least try and determine the size of THAT individual squid by figuring out how beak size correlates with body size. I'm not confident "33% bigger beak - 33% bigger squid" is accurate, it may be, but we'd need more squids of different sizes than purely knowing the size of a giant squid beak and a giant squid length. If I'm not mistaken the giant squid is also, relative to other squids, unusually long and gangly. Like the colossal squid has a bigger beak but is shorter (and more robust)? Not entirely sure on that but feel like I read that somewhere.

[Deleted]

Feb 23, 2023 22:38:24 GMT Hardcastle said:

I'm still trying to figure out how you are coming to that number...

Ok so you are just multiplying the length of an average giant squid by 1.33? (then extrapolating how high above the average giant squids CAN be and adding that percentage to the average haboroteuthis?). Is this correct?
If so I wouldn't assume that a beak 1.33x bigger = a squid 1.33x longer without looking into that. We'd need to measure different smaller squids and find that a beak increase of 33% consistently results in a squid that is 33% longer. That seems unlikely, a 33% beak increase may only result in a 10% length increase, or it may result in a 50% length increase. One would need to collect data on multiple different sized squids of various species to see if there's a general trend of beak upsizing resulting in a certain amount of body upsizing.

There's the additional issue ofcourse of assuming one beak is "average", when it might be way above or way below average. More beaks would be nice. But either way we could at least try and determine the size of THAT individual squid by figuring out how beak size correlates with body size. I'm not confident "33% bigger beak - 33% bigger squid" is accurate, it may be, but we'd need more squids of different sizes than purely knowing the size of a giant squid beak and a giant squid length. If I'm not mistaken the giant squid is also, relative to other squids, unusually long and gangly. Like the colossal squid has a bigger beak but is shorter (and more robust)? Not entirely sure on that but feel like I read that somewhere.

I'm comparing their beak sizes using a simple formula and then applying it to the Giant squid's length to find the extinct squid's length. And the reason why I'm using the Giant squid is because it's its closest living relative and is the most likely body shape of the extinct squid. It wouldn't be e.g. a humboldt squid as that squid has short tentacles and a large body and thus it would be very massive and slow at these sizes, the Giant squid is the opposite.

[Hardcastle]

This

2.4 ÷ 1.8 = 1.3333.

1.33 x 25 = 33.325ft long for this individual.

Makes it seem like you are scaling up the squid's body in exact proportion to how much it's beak is scaled up from a giant squids. This MAY happen to be the correct formula, but I would be surprised and currently see no reason to assume it is. I'd want beak and length measurements from at least 2 squids, even just two giant squids if we are confidently going to say it's most like a giant squid (may be right), still we'd want at least 2 individual specimens to know that a 33% bigger beak correlates with a 33% longer squid.