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Post by Hardcastle on Feb 8, 2023 6:44:55 GMT
I disagree on the ridgeback being superior at running... at least for long distances. Ridgebacks are good at it due to being part scenthound, Airedales are also part scenthound. So... In an open field the ridgeback will be a bit faster, yes. Well ridgebacks additionally have sighthound and I believe pointer in them, and overall I believe cut a more sleek athletic racey build than an airedale, and from it are afforded both more speed and more long distance running ability. The airedale may have more lateral agility (which is saying something, since ridgebacks have a lot to avoid lions, but I would suggest airedales have more). Actually, I believe you'd create a dog comparable to a ridgeback in movement by crossing an airedale with a pointer x grey. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2023 6:58:18 GMT
Jaguarfan. lol. Hardcastle too. Just doesn't make theoretical sense that any ambush specialist beats a combat specialist in the case of lead-in catchdog. What is the catchdog (selected only for combat) compromising on to be beaten by an ambush specialist, which nature says has to have significant compromise on face-to-face combat if it's going to be an ambush specialist? I don't know how the jaguar or anything in nature can have the cake and eat it too. At least with the running catchdog I case might be made for compromising some combat to be able to run. But lead-in catchdog? I appreciate the postings on Airedales and stuff though, that was cool. The problem is that cougars and leopards can already be a decent (not good, or great) fight to a gripping dog at 120lbs, and me and you both saw how jaguars scored higher than either, by a significant margin. They're also calmer, stronger bite, better actual feats. They're not superior at all weights, not even 100lbs, no, it's at around 115-120lbs. This is slightly lower than the sporting zone for cougars and leopards which I believe is 125-130lbs. I think you either think cougars and leopards are made out of paper so your stance on jaguars is pretty lowly, OR you're not comprehending jaguars as well as you should be. Jaguars are ambush predators but jaguars, tigers and lions are the ones who hang in there. They don't immediately abort the mission if things get rough. Jaguars, tigers and lions are the kind of cats who ambush because they can't catch their prey, cougars and leopards are the kind of cats who ambush because they can't kill their prey. I suppose that given huge tom cougars and leopards are so formidable and that smaller jaguars retain similar robusticity as huge cougar/leopard toms, I should then agree that smaller jaguars are P4P very formidable too. The weight consideration is tricky when you have the boarhounds getting worse as they get bigger while the cats are getting better as they get bigger while the jaguar stays essentially the same as they get bigger or smaller. We need some big mathematical equation to solve this stuff. |
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Post by s on Sept 28, 2023 10:30:55 GMT
P4P tier-list for canis lupus familiaris and ambush predator: 1. (Gamebred) straight bulldog 2. Drop-in catchdog/boarhound 3. Running catchdog/boarhound 4. Best face-to-face large-game ambush predator (ie jaguar) 5. Best hunting terriers and good face-to-face large-game ambush predators ie leopard/lion/tiger/clouded leopard/snow leopard 6. Cougar 7. Best sighthounds and best medium-to-large game ambush predators Maybe winging it a bit below jaguar but yeah giving it the good old college try. I don't know where the forum's obsession with "Gamebred bulldogs" comes from. If a Dog is "Gamebred" it means it has experience wrestling and brawling other Dogs. Not the same as tackling big Game. |
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Post by s on Nov 24, 2023 14:00:24 GMT
I think the best sighthounds beat cougars. Maritsane, Galgo Patagonico, Irish Wolfhound, even just a plain Boergreyhound. I also would put Airedale Terriers in #4 Boergreyhound beats a Puma? What? This is what happens when countersignalling Cat fans goes too far. |
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Post by Bolushi on Nov 24, 2023 19:04:25 GMT
I think the best sighthounds beat cougars. Maritsane, Galgo Patagonico, Irish Wolfhound, even just a plain Boergreyhound. I also would put Airedale Terriers in #4 Boergreyhound beats a Puma? What? This is what happens when countersignalling Cat fans goes too far. To be fair that was before MV came to save the cougar's reputation. I was also a massive Boergrey fan and wanted them to be as tough as the other sighthounds but no they're a different thing and an adult cougar would kill one. |
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Post by Bolushi on Nov 24, 2023 19:09:41 GMT
P4P tier-list for canis lupus familiaris and ambush predator: 1. (Gamebred) straight bulldog 2. Drop-in catchdog/boarhound 3. Running catchdog/boarhound 4. Best face-to-face large-game ambush predator (ie jaguar) 5. Best hunting terriers and good face-to-face large-game ambush predators ie leopard/lion/tiger/clouded leopard/snow leopard 6. Cougar 7. Best sighthounds and best medium-to-large game ambush predators Maybe winging it a bit below jaguar but yeah giving it the good old college try. I don't know where the forum's obsession with "Gamebred bulldogs" comes from. If a Dog is "Gamebred" it means it has experience wrestling and brawling other Dogs. Not the same as tackling big Game. Gamebred bulldogs on big game are about the same as other bulldogs/bull terriers, and gamebred APBTs are the best working bulldog today due to being bred properly. Some fighting dogs have been used for hog dogging/bull catching and dog fighting at the same time. Ajay had some pretty strong opinions on gamebred dogs, and they were well thought-out, unfortunately he was mistaken in some of his points which we now know. |
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Post by s on Nov 24, 2023 20:44:18 GMT
I don't know where the forum's obsession with "Gamebred bulldogs" comes from. If a Dog is "Gamebred" it means it has experience wrestling and brawling other Dogs. Not the same as tackling big Game. Gamebred bulldogs on big game are about the same as other bulldogs/bull terriers, and gamebred APBTs are the best working bulldog today due to being bred properly. Some fighting dogs have been used for hog dogging/bull catching and dog fighting at the same time. Ajay had some pretty strong opinions on gamebred dogs, and they were well thought-out, unfortunately he was mistaken in some of his points which we now know. Im aware. But when it comes to fighting things that aren't Dogs i think a 'Working" Bull Terrier would perform better than a "Gamebred" one. |
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Post by s on Nov 24, 2023 20:49:29 GMT
Boergreyhound beats a Puma? What? This is what happens when countersignalling Cat fans goes too far. To be fair that was before MV came to save the cougar's reputation. I was also a massive Boergrey fan and wanted them to be as tough as the other sighthounds but no they're a different thing and an adult cougar would kill one. When would you place a really impressive Puma like this on your scale? In between catch Boarhound and Jaguar?  |
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Post by Bolushi on Nov 24, 2023 20:50:48 GMT
To be fair that was before MV came to save the cougar's reputation. I was also a massive Boergrey fan and wanted them to be as tough as the other sighthounds but no they're a different thing and an adult cougar would kill one. When would you place a really impressive Puma like this on your scale? In between catch Boarhound and Jaguar? Depends on how much it weighs or if it's just ripped. |
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Post by s on Nov 24, 2023 20:51:25 GMT
When would you place a really impressive Puma like this on your scale? In between catch Boarhound and Jaguar? Depends on how much it weighs or if it's just ripped. Im referring to parity |
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Post by Bolushi on Nov 24, 2023 20:55:57 GMT
Gamebred bulldogs on big game are about the same as other bulldogs/bull terriers, and gamebred APBTs are the best working bulldog today due to being bred properly. Some fighting dogs have been used for hog dogging/bull catching and dog fighting at the same time. Ajay had some pretty strong opinions on gamebred dogs, and they were well thought-out, unfortunately he was mistaken in some of his points which we now know. Im aware. But when it comes to fighting things that aren't Dogs i think a 'Working" Bull Terrier would perform better than a "Gamebred" one. Well a gamebred pitbull that fought other gamebred pitbulls all its life would probably be an inferior catch dog compared to an APBT or EBT or SBT etc. that spent its life catching hogs, but if they've all spent their lives catching hogs they will be the same. Most "working bull terriers" (in the USA at least) are gamebred APBTs, but instead of fighting other dogs they're actually beaten into NOT fighting other dogs (besides the ones that still hate other dogs which tend to hunt alone as a result) and instead catching hogs or bulls or whatever. Most working EBT lines generally have pitbull in them, they're a 50/50 cross, they are not pure EBTs. They do that for a reason. You get what the EBT is SUPPOSED to be. |
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Post by Bolushi on Nov 24, 2023 20:56:55 GMT
Depends on how much it weighs or if it's just ripped. Im referring to parity Parity at what weight? At parity of 130-150lbs I think I would agree with your placement. |
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