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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2023 6:27:06 GMT
Im so confused on this. On one hand they are said to be relatives of dingos who were never domesticated but also the oldest domesticated dog? Also how have we barely found any in the wild.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2023 6:27:42 GMT
Singing dogs/dingoes/huskies/etc. are wild domestic dogs that can make OK pets.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2023 6:31:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2023 6:39:48 GMT
They're wrong, loool, go search up ''dingo colors'' they know really fucking well they're feral dogs. They just want the government to stop massacring them. A good cause, but not science. Dingoes are Australian huskies, that's all. Some dingoes look very much like huskies, again search up dingo colors. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Feb 2, 2023 7:01:59 GMT
Both. Domestic dogs are natural wild animals that evolved to exploit human camps. Still today most domestic dogs (around 70%) have this niche, aren't owned or fed by anyone and live free and wild. Most of these populations are comprised of mixed mongrels, but in ancient places uncontacted by the modern world until recently (like Australia and New Guinea) these dogs were essentially a "pure breed", that's because they pre-date dogs diversifying into different types. They're just the original wild domestic dog, before anyone tamed them or kept them captive or looked after them in anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2023 7:28:58 GMT
They're wrong, loool, go search up ''dingo colors'' they know really fucking well they're feral dogs. They just want the government to stop massacring them. A good cause, but not science. Dingoes are Australian huskies, that's all. Some dingoes look very much like huskies, again search up dingo colors. Black wolves have dog colors. Doesn't mean they were ever domesticated but they interbred with dogs way back. Dingos interbred with dogs much more frequently than wolves do which would explain the coloring. Also curious do you think the studies i linked were had valid misinterpreted results or the results were faked? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2023 7:31:26 GMT
They're just the original wild domestic dog, before anyone tamed them or kept them captive or looked after them in anyway. What's the difference between tame and domestic. I think i can get what you are saying but are crows and rats and raccoons or quolls domesticated? Where would the line stop? Coyotes also live in close proximity to humans |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2023 18:35:03 GMT
They're wrong, loool, go search up ''dingo colors'' they know really fucking well they're feral dogs. They just want the government to stop massacring them. A good cause, but not science. Dingoes are Australian huskies, that's all. Some dingoes look very much like huskies, again search up dingo colors. Black wolves have dog colors. Doesn't mean they were ever domesticated but they interbred with dogs way back. Dingos interbred with dogs much more frequently than wolves do which would explain the coloring. Also curious do you think the studies i linked were had valid misinterpreted results or the results were faked? One of the two but I'd bank on the latter with a highly convincing study because it's a STUDY ffs!!! Here is the list of dingo colors:  Thousands of dingoes are massacred in the name of ''dingo purity''. They look and act like desert huskies. Every dingo video I've ever seen reminds me of Yoshi, matter of fact. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2023 6:28:58 GMT
Black wolves have dog colors. Doesn't mean they were ever domesticated but they interbred with dogs way back. Dingos interbred with dogs much more frequently than wolves do which would explain the coloring. Also curious do you think the studies i linked were had valid misinterpreted results or the results were faked? One of the two but I'd bank on the latter with a highly convincing study because it's a STUDY ffs!!! Here is the list of dingo colors: Thousands of dingoes are massacred in the name of ''dingo purity''. They look and act like desert huskies. Every dingo video I've ever seen reminds me of Yoshi, matter of fact. I mean dogs hybridized with wolves giving wolves black coat. 30% of dingos have significant dog ancestry so these may not be pure dingoes. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2023 7:23:27 GMT
One of the two but I'd bank on the latter with a highly convincing study because it's a STUDY ffs!!! Here is the list of dingo colors: Thousands of dingoes are massacred in the name of ''dingo purity''. They look and act like desert huskies. Every dingo video I've ever seen reminds me of Yoshi, matter of fact. I mean dogs hybridized with wolves giving wolves black coat. 30% of dingos have significant dog ancestry so these may not be pure dingoes. But dingoes are dogs which makes you wrong. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Feb 3, 2023 9:42:01 GMT
One of the two but I'd bank on the latter with a highly convincing study because it's a STUDY ffs!!! Here is the list of dingo colors: Thousands of dingoes are massacred in the name of ''dingo purity''. They look and act like desert huskies. Every dingo video I've ever seen reminds me of Yoshi, matter of fact. I mean dogs hybridized with wolves giving wolves black coat. 30% of dingos have significant dog ancestry so these may not be pure dingoes. That was always the speculation with different coloured dingoes, and it caused farmers and hunters to ruthlessly persecute dingoes which weren't fawn/tan in colour, however recent genetic research has found even dingoes with different colorations are more often "pure" than not. Or as pure as dingoes have ever been and as pure as any dingoes. The reality is they are just "dogs" in their original form, from before breeds, and dogs originally did have a diversity of colours. Some populations are dominated by the sandy colour, but not all, and it's actually no indicator of purity. On your question about other animals which are exploiting human settlements. Yes, now lots of animals have started doing this. Time will tell if they change into a different animal. It seems maybe not. We have become so tolerant we just kind of shrug and accept the wild animals as they are, so they don't need to change. Back in the paleolithic and neolithic humans were much more hostile with wildlife, especially wolves were just enemy number 1, so dogs HAD to change into something else that is especially adapted to humans. That changing into a distinctly different new animal adapted to human beings in the make up of your physical body and mind/behaviour is what defines a domestic animal. A wild animal can be tame but it's not a domestic animal until it changes into a different animal from it's wild counterpart. Pigeons actually do have a question mark on them, as do rats. But coyotes and racoons and black bears and etc all exploiting human habitats haven't actually changed from their wild form. So that is why they are not domesticated animals. Dogs aren't wolves. Goats aren't Bezoar Ibex. Sheep aren't Mouflon. Llamas aren't Guanaco, etc, these are domestic animals distinct from their wild ancestors, even if they go wild and feral they are forever changed and different (sometimes even better equipped to thrive in the wild, like feral domestic pigs). |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2023 18:28:08 GMT
I mean dogs hybridized with wolves giving wolves black coat. 30% of dingos have significant dog ancestry so these may not be pure dingoes. That was always the speculation with different coloured dingoes, and it caused farmers and hunters to ruthlessly persecute dingoes which weren't fawn/tan in colour, however recent genetic research has found even dingoes with different colorations are more often "pure" than not. Or as pure as dingoes have ever been and as pure as any dingoes. The reality is they are just "dogs" in their original form, from before breeds, and dogs originally did have a diversity of colours. Some populations are dominated by the sandy colour, but not all, and it's actually no indicator of purity. On your question about other animals which are exploiting human settlements. Yes, now lots of animals have started doing this. Time will tell if they change into a different animal. It seems maybe not. We have become so tolerant we just kind of shrug and accept the wild animals as they are, so they don't need to change. Back in the paleolithic and neolithic humans were much more hostile with wildlife, especially wolves were just enemy number 1, so dogs HAD to change into something else that is especially adapted to humans. That changing into a distinctly different new animal adapted to human beings in the make up of your physical body and mind/behaviour is what defines a domestic animal. A wild animal can be tame but it's not a domestic animal until it changes into a different animal from it's wild counterpart. Pigeons actually do have a question mark on them, as do rats. But coyotes and racoons and black bears and etc all exploiting human habitats haven't actually changed from their wild form. So that is why they are not domesticated animals. Dogs aren't wolves. Goats aren't Bezoar Ibex. Sheep aren't Mouflon. Llamas aren't Guanaco, etc, these are domestic animals distinct from their wild ancestors, even if they go wild and feral they are forever changed and different (sometimes even better equipped to thrive in the wild, like feral domestic pigs). Interesting, I will read up more on that. Your definition of domestication makes sense. Would you say the largemouth bass has been domesticated? Its been introduced throughout many populated areas worldwide and crossed to enhance traits such as size, catch rate and cold resistance. Just trying to flesh out what domesticated means. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2023 19:09:17 GMT
I mean dogs hybridized with wolves giving wolves black coat. 30% of dingos have significant dog ancestry so these may not be pure dingoes. That was always the speculation with different coloured dingoes, and it caused farmers and hunters to ruthlessly persecute dingoes which weren't fawn/tan in colour, however recent genetic research has found even dingoes with different colorations are more often "pure" than not. Or as pure as dingoes have ever been and as pure as any dingoes. The reality is they are just "dogs" in their original form, from before breeds, and dogs originally did have a diversity of colours. Some populations are dominated by the sandy colour, but not all, and it's actually no indicator of purity. On your question about other animals which are exploiting human settlements. Yes, now lots of animals have started doing this. Time will tell if they change into a different animal. It seems maybe not. We have become so tolerant we just kind of shrug and accept the wild animals as they are, so they don't need to change. Back in the paleolithic and neolithic humans were much more hostile with wildlife, especially wolves were just enemy number 1, so dogs HAD to change into something else that is especially adapted to humans. That changing into a distinctly different new animal adapted to human beings in the make up of your physical body and mind/behaviour is what defines a domestic animal. A wild animal can be tame but it's not a domestic animal until it changes into a different animal from it's wild counterpart. Pigeons actually do have a question mark on them, as do rats. But coyotes and racoons and black bears and etc all exploiting human habitats haven't actually changed from their wild form. So that is why they are not domesticated animals. Dogs aren't wolves. Goats aren't Bezoar Ibex. Sheep aren't Mouflon. Llamas aren't Guanaco, etc, these are domestic animals distinct from their wild ancestors, even if they go wild and feral they are forever changed and different (sometimes even better equipped to thrive in the wild, like feral domestic pigs). You are correct on dogs being distinct from their wolf ancestors as in a species. For your average dog is known as Canis Lupus Familiaris. Your average cat known as Felis Catus. Your average Cattle are known as Bos Taurus. Your average Pig is Ovis Aries. Your average Chicken is gallus gallus domesticus. All of these are known by science as either subspecies or distinct species, depending on a lot of things. But i’d disagree they are entirely different in behavior as well. Sure; it has been changed a little to suit environmental standards of us humans; but there are a lot of aspects they are similar. We took the wolves sociableness, hunting style, aggression, cooperation, coordination, endurance, and shaped it into the dog. We took the cats rodent hunting ability, typically solitariness, and feline habits to suit into the house cat. We took the aurochs massive size, grazing ability, and milk and meat production into play making the cattle. We took the Junglefowls egg producing, along with producing fine meat to eat for a lot of occasions, and their easy ability to live on most of any landscape, (that includes cities and rural environments) into making the chicken. And i’d also very much disagree that feral domestic animals are different from their wild ancestors. Look at feral cattle. They retain the heavy aggression and looks typically known for aurochs. Look at feral chickens. This is one of the birds I see no different than their wild ancestor, the junglefowl due to lack of found differences. Look at feral donkeys. Very skittish and flighty, like their ancestor, the wild ass, is known for. Feral cats become semi-solitary even though loose social groups known for having “queens” for female cats to raise kittens together and groom each other, and may compete with other unknown cats, resembling a loose lion pride. Other than that they are solitary. Their other behavior definitely matches that of the African Wildcat. Also both House Cats and African Wildcats will “manipulate” huge prey animals, like deer or giraffes that are about to turn on them. Feral sheep are uncommon as the other domestic animals mentioned but most definitely resemblant of the Mouflon from what i’ve seen. Adaptable, have mating contests whenever they want, and scattered when fleeing predators. Feral dogs are extremely represent of their wolf ancestors. They are good at working herds, know when to hunt and when not to hunt, they can be solo or in packs, they have increased competition between other predators, they hunt mainly large game but will take small game, they are skittish and fucking terrified of humans and want nothing to do with them, they communally rear their pups, (as in the whole pack assists in rearing their pups) have family units as their packs mostly, they have a high sense of self-preservation and another important one, they are completely fucking hated by ranchers for their livestock depredations. Also, feral dogs in colder climates look a lot like wolves with their double layered fur and wolf-y features such as very long snouts. Dingoes have evolved in Australia which hereby means they need camoflauge to live effectively, but Dingoes very much do resemble wolves. And when I say feral dog I don’t just mean Dingoes, I mean feral domestic dogs in general, mostly within 1-3 generations. Dingoes have had a lot of generations to evolve, so they are a fuck load of generations. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Feb 3, 2023 21:36:14 GMT
That was always the speculation with different coloured dingoes, and it caused farmers and hunters to ruthlessly persecute dingoes which weren't fawn/tan in colour, however recent genetic research has found even dingoes with different colorations are more often "pure" than not. Or as pure as dingoes have ever been and as pure as any dingoes. The reality is they are just "dogs" in their original form, from before breeds, and dogs originally did have a diversity of colours. Some populations are dominated by the sandy colour, but not all, and it's actually no indicator of purity. On your question about other animals which are exploiting human settlements. Yes, now lots of animals have started doing this. Time will tell if they change into a different animal. It seems maybe not. We have become so tolerant we just kind of shrug and accept the wild animals as they are, so they don't need to change. Back in the paleolithic and neolithic humans were much more hostile with wildlife, especially wolves were just enemy number 1, so dogs HAD to change into something else that is especially adapted to humans. That changing into a distinctly different new animal adapted to human beings in the make up of your physical body and mind/behaviour is what defines a domestic animal. A wild animal can be tame but it's not a domestic animal until it changes into a different animal from it's wild counterpart. Pigeons actually do have a question mark on them, as do rats. But coyotes and racoons and black bears and etc all exploiting human habitats haven't actually changed from their wild form. So that is why they are not domesticated animals. Dogs aren't wolves. Goats aren't Bezoar Ibex. Sheep aren't Mouflon. Llamas aren't Guanaco, etc, these are domestic animals distinct from their wild ancestors, even if they go wild and feral they are forever changed and different (sometimes even better equipped to thrive in the wild, like feral domestic pigs). Interesting, I will read up more on that. Your definition of domestication makes sense. Would you say the largemouth bass has been domesticated? Its been introduced throughout many populated areas worldwide and crossed to enhance traits such as size, catch rate and cold resistance. Just trying to flesh out what domesticated means. Yeah that may be another question mark. There are possibly more than we even know, like animals we think of as wild animals like any other but which are absolutely altered in recent millennia to be better adapted to thrive in close proximity to humans. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Feb 3, 2023 21:56:30 GMT
That was always the speculation with different coloured dingoes, and it caused farmers and hunters to ruthlessly persecute dingoes which weren't fawn/tan in colour, however recent genetic research has found even dingoes with different colorations are more often "pure" than not. Or as pure as dingoes have ever been and as pure as any dingoes. The reality is they are just "dogs" in their original form, from before breeds, and dogs originally did have a diversity of colours. Some populations are dominated by the sandy colour, but not all, and it's actually no indicator of purity. On your question about other animals which are exploiting human settlements. Yes, now lots of animals have started doing this. Time will tell if they change into a different animal. It seems maybe not. We have become so tolerant we just kind of shrug and accept the wild animals as they are, so they don't need to change. Back in the paleolithic and neolithic humans were much more hostile with wildlife, especially wolves were just enemy number 1, so dogs HAD to change into something else that is especially adapted to humans. That changing into a distinctly different new animal adapted to human beings in the make up of your physical body and mind/behaviour is what defines a domestic animal. A wild animal can be tame but it's not a domestic animal until it changes into a different animal from it's wild counterpart. Pigeons actually do have a question mark on them, as do rats. But coyotes and racoons and black bears and etc all exploiting human habitats haven't actually changed from their wild form. So that is why they are not domesticated animals. Dogs aren't wolves. Goats aren't Bezoar Ibex. Sheep aren't Mouflon. Llamas aren't Guanaco, etc, these are domestic animals distinct from their wild ancestors, even if they go wild and feral they are forever changed and different (sometimes even better equipped to thrive in the wild, like feral domestic pigs). You are correct on dogs being distinct from their wolf ancestors as in a species. For your average dog is known as Canis Lupus Familiaris. Your average cat known as Felis Catus. Your average Cattle are known as Bos Taurus. Your average Pig is Ovis Aries. Your average Chicken is gallus gallus domesticus. All of these are known by science as either subspecies or distinct species, depending on a lot of things. But i’d disagree they are entirely different in behavior as well. Sure; it has been changed a little to suit environmental standards of us humans; but there are a lot of aspects they are similar. We took the wolves sociableness, hunting style, aggression, cooperation, coordination, endurance, and shaped it into the dog. We took the cats rodent hunting ability, typically solitariness, and feline habits to suit into the house cat. We took the aurochs massive size, grazing ability, and milk and meat production into play making the cattle. We took the Junglefowls egg producing, along with producing fine meat to eat for a lot of occasions, and their easy ability to live on most of any landscape, (that includes cities and rural environments) into making the chicken. And i’d also very much disagree that feral domestic animals are different from their wild ancestors. Look at feral cattle. They retain the heavy aggression and looks typically known for aurochs. Look at feral chickens. This is one of the birds I see no different than their wild ancestor, the junglefowl due to lack of found differences. Look at feral donkeys. Very skittish and flighty, like their ancestor, the wild ass, is known for. Feral cats become semi-solitary even though loose social groups known for having “queens” for female cats to raise kittens together and groom each other, and may compete with other unknown cats, resembling a loose lion pride. Other than that they are solitary. Their other behavior definitely matches that of the African Wildcat. Also both House Cats and African Wildcats will “manipulate” huge prey animals, like deer or giraffes that are about to turn on them. Feral sheep are uncommon as the other domestic animals mentioned but most definitely resemblant of the Mouflon from what i’ve seen. Adaptable, have mating contests whenever they want, and scattered when fleeing predators. Feral dogs are extremely represent of their wolf ancestors. They are good at working herds, know when to hunt and when not to hunt, they can be solo or in packs, they have increased competition between other predators, they hunt mainly large game but will take small game, they are skittish and fucking terrified of humans and want nothing to do with them, they communally rear their pups, (as in the whole pack assists in rearing their pups) have family units as their packs mostly, they have a high sense of self-preservation and another important one, they are completely fucking hated by ranchers for their livestock depredations. Also, feral dogs in colder climates look a lot like wolves with their double layered fur and wolf-y features such as very long snouts. Dingoes have evolved in Australia which hereby means they need camoflauge to live effectively, but Dingoes very much do resemble wolves. And when I say feral dog I don’t just mean Dingoes, I mean feral domestic dogs in general, mostly within 1-3 generations. Dingoes have had a lot of generations to evolve, so they are a fuck load of generations. Of course they are mostly similar, more similar than different, and typically are actually the same species genetically to their wild ancestor (sometimes classified as a different species despite it making no sense genetically due to the extreme genetic closeness and free hybridisation). The differences can be subtle, but distinct when you look for them. Chickens differ from jungle fowl by growing more weight more quickly, being less shy and skittish (a common one with most domestic animals) and they also make a different crowing sound. I'm not sure if they have different egg laying habits, but I'd be surprised if they don't. Domestic pigs and dogs, even when feral and fully returned to the wild, have much more prolific breeding habits than wild boar and wolves. A big part of why they are so successful. Knowing and reading and predicting human behaviour also makes them formidable adversaries for any humans hoping to hunt them or eradicate them. In fact they can't. Humans tomorrow could decide to eradicate wolves and wild boar and succeed in doing so in a short space of time (they have succeeded in doing so with certain populations in certain parts of the world many times going well back into history). With feral domestic dogs and hogs(and cats and others, rats of course), they try to eradicate them but sincerely can not. These animals haven't just adapted to be "friends" with people, they've adapted to compete with people. They've adapted to thriving in a human world and humans can't wipe them out even with concerted effort using their best technology. |
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