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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 2:11:59 GMT
“cats kill prey 5x their size alone”?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 2:22:27 GMT
“cats kill prey 5x their size alone”? In an ambush on a disadvantaged opponent and 9/10 on some stupid fucking antelope and they STILL fail. They only kill the most useless prey 5x their size. Deer, cow elk... they can't even kill cattle. I welcome cat fans to compare the video of the cougar getting outfought by a guanaco and the video of a 55lb lurcher effortlessly killing a guanaco no problem. Soooo, at what size do cats meet ''dog'' in general in what they can kill? They certainly need a size advantage, the ONLY question marks being the clouded leopard and jaguar. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 23, 2023 3:17:52 GMT
“cats kill prey 5x their size alone”? Lone wolves have killed significantly larger prey than cats their size. Lone bulldogs have subdued prey 55 times their size. So... I guess my response is; "that's surprisingly underwhelming, I would expect better". |
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Post by CoolJohnson on Jan 23, 2023 3:40:27 GMT
I am not a dog fan, but even I have to admit that doga and canids can bring down significantly large prey, though they use different techniques.
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 23, 2023 4:21:40 GMT
I am not a dog fan, but even I have to admit that doga and canids can bring down significantly large prey, though they use different techniques. They do, and swinging by your jaw on the face of a beast is actually a more effective and versatile method of controlling and subdueing it, with less innate limitations, than trying to piggy back it down to the ground with your paws and claws. That's why the "grappling" stuff was always BS, the grappling of cats is inferior, the method just more closely resembles a method we better relate to as dexterous apes. The perk for cats (and there's always a perk), is limiting themselves to the forelimb grappling technique DID allow them to develop a specialist killing bite that pierces and penetrates with lethal precision and accuracy for quick efficient kills once their prey (albeit mediocre) is subdued. Dogs have to grapple with their mouth, and then once they have subjugated their prey they have to think about trying to readjust their clamping bite and go for a kill, with a "jack of all trades" jaw (at best, worse if it's a "master of grappling" jaw), and so their killing can be sloppy and inefficient, or even non-existent on some of the quarry they subdue. That's an inferior killing bite, NOT inferior grappling, they do not have inferior grappling. |
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jan 24, 2023 10:38:34 GMT
“cats kill prey 5x their size alone”? Lone wolves have killed significantly larger prey than cats their size. Lone bulldogs have subdued prey 55 times their size. So... I guess my response is; "that's surprisingly underwhelming, I would expect better". Well, there aren't many cats the size of a lone wolf. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 24, 2023 11:09:51 GMT
Well cats way bigger, like pumas, have never killed some of the prey that lone wolves have (like bison).
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jan 24, 2023 12:06:04 GMT
Well cats way bigger, like pumas, have never killed some of the prey that lone wolves have (like bison). When have lone wolves ever killed adult, perfectly healthy, non-winter weakened, non-compromised bison? I've seen some YouTube videos, but the bison was: • In winter, obviously not anywhere near peak condition • Not an adult bison: There's one I posted on Quora that some dog fan claimed "weighed over 2000 pounds". That thing was barely over 300 kilos • Maybe even not fit. The way the bison in the afore-mentioned video went down, it didn't even put up any kind of fight. No lies, even a wildebeest would have put up a better fight than that bison. I'm very serious when I say that. There's not a single one of those bison that the lone wolves killed (not legit bison) that even a mediocre cougar just out for a walk in the woods wouldn't have roasted. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 24, 2023 12:11:11 GMT
Wild predators in general never ever ever kill perfectly healthy prime specimens which aren't disadvantaged. By definition they clean up the refuse and streamline the population of a prey species. They are quality control, good quality is invulnerable, they remove bad quality from the gene pool. That is their job. But, pumas have never killed any kind of bison under any circumstances.
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jan 24, 2023 12:14:54 GMT
Wild predators in general never ever ever kill perfectly healthy prime specimens which aren't disadvantaged. By definition they clean up the refuse and streamline the population of a prey species. They are quality control, good quality is invulnerable, they remove bad quality from the gene pool. That is their job. But, pumas have never killed any kind of bison under any circumstances. Cougars most definitely have killed bison, maybe not adults (actually have a post on Quora addressing Cougar vs Bison, planning to make a follow-up on it based on someone's comment), otherwise they wouldn't be recorded as one of their predators. Even coyote packs can bring down 2 billion miles far from legit bison, so a puma most definitely can. Maybe you meant to say that we have no videos on ground at the moment. |
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jan 24, 2023 12:18:40 GMT
Wild predators in general never ever ever kill perfectly healthy prime specimens which aren't disadvantaged. By definition they clean up the refuse and streamline the population of a prey species. They are quality control, good quality is invulnerable, they remove bad quality from the gene pool. That is their job. But, pumas have never killed any kind of bison under any circumstances. But yeah, them gripping dogs are exceptional in what they do. 55 times your size is something I doubt can ever be broken in any time or age. 100% agree. It's just the lone wolf thing I'm concerned about. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 24, 2023 12:25:55 GMT
I personally haven't heard of a case of puma preying on adult bison. I haven't heard MANY cases of lone wolves doing it either, but I can recall 2 distinct cases which were presented to carnivora by reddhole.
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jan 24, 2023 12:34:39 GMT
I personally haven't heard of a case of puma preying on adult bison. I haven't heard MANY cases of lone wolves doing it either, but I can recall 2 distinct cases which were presented to carnivora by reddhole. 2 cases of wolves killing adult bison? Is it still on Carnivora? Again, were the bison even a little bit close to being healthy? I've also posted this link to a page that showed that cougars once attacked bison on 2 separate occasions: markgelbart.wordpress.com/2014/08/01/astonishing-cougar-attacks-on-bison-bears-and-humans/ |
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jan 24, 2023 12:36:56 GMT
For all you know, they might even have been adult bison. The cougars were stopped by hunters witnessing the proceedings and it was implied that they might have succeeded if they had not been stopped.
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 24, 2023 12:44:28 GMT
Unfortunately they were on a previous incarnation of carnivora.
I have made no effort whatsoever to find the cases, it may not even be difficult. I dunno (i'm busy enough on other things, working on big responses to a couple of threads).
Confirming puma killing adult bison would be interesting, but I think it's unlikely, they basically never kill even cattle over a few months old, despite having ample opportunity. Cattle ranchers hate wolves but could care less about pumas.
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