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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Jan 24, 2023 19:38:53 GMT
I seriously doubt this statement that cougars kill bull moose, even from ambush. If a cougar ever did this, it was that time of year when the moose had no antlers and he was probably asleep when he was ambushed. Face-to-face, I would wager on a bull moose against a lion or a tiger. If his antlers don't kill the big cat, a swift kick will. Jaguar stands practically no chance. Fact: no cat species prefers a face-to-face fight and will avoid one if possible. This is why a sloth bear, if he stands his ground, can usually back down a tiger. Grizzlies kill bull moose every year. This is a documented fact. IMO, probably from ambush or perhaps head-on against a moose without antlers. A brown bear is far more durable than a big cat. No, a bull moose shouldn't be favoured over a lion or a tiger. Both these guys are built to take down bovines in their prime. Would you favour a bull moose over a cape buffalo? I would think not. Lions have killed buffaloes face-to-face, fair and square fights, no cheating, no nothing. YouTube is literally littered with videos of the sort. Yes, tigers have also killed gaurs face-to-face. I can post videos and accounts, if they become necessary, both I don’t think they are. Keep in mind that moose aren't even bovines. They're cervids, deer at the very best (though they're obviously no average deer). Cervids are generally weaker than bovines, the guys lions and tigers specialise on. Also, no, grizzly bears hardly go near bull moose. If you care to see, I can show accounts of moose (even females) winning against them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2023 19:45:52 GMT
Absolutely zero evidence of bull moose kills besides a 1955 account, considering it contradicts all of the ''evidence'' you posted you should know it's bullshit.
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Post by wermthewerm on Jan 27, 2023 13:33:53 GMT
I seriously doubt this statement that cougars kill bull moose, even from ambush. If a cougar ever did this, it was that time of year when the moose had no antlers and he was probably asleep when he was ambushed. Face-to-face, I would wager on a bull moose against a lion or a tiger. If his antlers don't kill the big cat, a swift kick will. Jaguar stands practically no chance. Fact: no cat species prefers a face-to-face fight and will avoid one if possible. This is why a sloth bear, if he stands his ground, can usually back down a tiger. Grizzlies kill bull moose every year. This is a documented fact. IMO, probably from ambush or perhaps head-on against a moose without antlers. A brown bear is far more durable than a big cat. No, a bull moose shouldn't be favoured over a lion or a tiger. Both these guys are built to take down bovines in their prime. Would you favour a bull moose over a cape buffalo? I would think not. Lions have killed buffaloes face-to-face, fair and square fights, no cheating, no nothing. YouTube is literally littered with videos of the sort. Yes, tigers have also killed gaurs face-to-face. I can post videos and accounts, if they become necessary, both I don’t think they are. Keep in mind that moose aren't even bovines. They're cervids, deer at the very best (though they're obviously no average deer). Cervids are generally weaker than bovines, the guys lions and tigers specialise on. Also, no, grizzly bears hardly go near bull moose. If you care to see, I can show accounts of moose (even females) winning against them. Not here to debate moose vs lion or tiger (at the moment at least), but do you mind sending those accounts of moose defeating bears? I've heard of bull moose killing brown bears, but I have not been able to find an account of a cow moose defeating a brown bear. |
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Post by wermthewerm on Nov 24, 2023 21:21:15 GMT
I seriously doubt this statement that cougars kill bull moose, even from ambush. If a cougar ever did this, it was that time of year when the moose had no antlers and he was probably asleep when he was ambushed. Face-to-face, I would wager on a bull moose against a lion or a tiger. If his antlers don't kill the big cat, a swift kick will. Jaguar stands practically no chance. Fact: no cat species prefers a face-to-face fight and will avoid one if possible. This is why a sloth bear, if he stands his ground, can usually back down a tiger. Grizzlies kill bull moose every year. This is a documented fact. IMO, probably from ambush or perhaps head-on against a moose without antlers. A brown bear is far more durable than a big cat. No, a bull moose shouldn't be favoured over a lion or a tiger. Both these guys are built to take down bovines in their prime. Would you favour a bull moose over a cape buffalo? I would think not. Lions have killed buffaloes face-to-face, fair and square fights, no cheating, no nothing. YouTube is literally littered with videos of the sort. Yes, tigers have also killed gaurs face-to-face. I can post videos and accounts, if they become necessary, both I don’t think they are. Keep in mind that moose aren't even bovines. They're cervids, deer at the very best (though they're obviously no average deer). Cervids are generally weaker than bovines, the guys lions and tigers specialise on. Also, no, grizzly bears hardly go near bull moose. If you care to see, I can show accounts of moose (even females) winning against them. About this post, or moreso specifically:
"Cervids are generally weaker than bovines, the guys lions and tigers specialise on." is a bit of an overgeneralization. Cervids are weaker overall than members of the biggest of the Bovini tribe (I say biggest because there's no real reason to believe a saola or a mountain anoa would be stronger than a cervid of similar size) though. I assume that's what you meant by bovines?
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Post by s on Nov 25, 2023 17:49:02 GMT
No, a bull moose shouldn't be favoured over a lion or a tiger. Both these guys are built to take down bovines in their prime. Would you favour a bull moose over a cape buffalo? I would think not. Lions have killed buffaloes face-to-face, fair and square fights, no cheating, no nothing. YouTube is literally littered with videos of the sort. Yes, tigers have also killed gaurs face-to-face. I can post videos and accounts, if they become necessary, both I don’t think they are. Keep in mind that moose aren't even bovines. They're cervids, deer at the very best (though they're obviously no average deer). Cervids are generally weaker than bovines, the guys lions and tigers specialise on. Also, no, grizzly bears hardly go near bull moose. If you care to see, I can show accounts of moose (even females) winning against them. About this post, or moreso specifically:
"Cervids are generally weaker than bovines, the guys lions and tigers specialise on." is a bit of an overgeneralization. Cervids are weaker overall than members of the biggest of the Bovini tribe (I say biggest because there's no real reason to believe a saola or a mountain anoa would be stronger than a cervid of similar size) though. I assume that's what you meant by bovines?
Wern, what's the Bovine that's the most even with male Alaskan/Chukotka Moose when it comes to strenght and power? Yak maybe? |
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Post by wermthewerm on Nov 25, 2023 18:13:25 GMT
About this post, or moreso specifically:
"Cervids are generally weaker than bovines, the guys lions and tigers specialise on." is a bit of an overgeneralization. Cervids are weaker overall than members of the biggest of the Bovini tribe (I say biggest because there's no real reason to believe a saola or a mountain anoa would be stronger than a cervid of similar size) though. I assume that's what you meant by bovines?
Wern, what's the Bovine that's the most even with male Alaskan/Chukotka Moose when it comes to strenght and power? Yak maybe? Probably elands if we're going off of the entirety of Bovinae.
As for just the bovini tribe? I'm honestly not sure.
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Post by PumAcinonyx SuperCat on Nov 26, 2023 4:16:47 GMT
No, a bull moose shouldn't be favoured over a lion or a tiger. Both these guys are built to take down bovines in their prime. Would you favour a bull moose over a cape buffalo? I would think not. Lions have killed buffaloes face-to-face, fair and square fights, no cheating, no nothing. YouTube is literally littered with videos of the sort. Yes, tigers have also killed gaurs face-to-face. I can post videos and accounts, if they become necessary, both I don’t think they are. Keep in mind that moose aren't even bovines. They're cervids, deer at the very best (though they're obviously no average deer). Cervids are generally weaker than bovines, the guys lions and tigers specialise on. Also, no, grizzly bears hardly go near bull moose. If you care to see, I can show accounts of moose (even females) winning against them. About this post, or moreso specifically:
"Cervids are generally weaker than bovines, the guys lions and tigers specialise on." is a bit of an overgeneralization. Cervids are weaker overall than members of the biggest of the Bovini tribe (I say biggest because there's no real reason to believe a saola or a mountain anoa would be stronger than a cervid of similar size) though. I assume that's what you meant by bovines?
Actually, when I said "bovines", I actually meant wild cattle species in particular, like gaur, buffaloes, and bison. I've recently decided to redefine the animals that many people call "bovines." Oftentimes, when people say "bovines", especially in the context that I did, it's actually cattle in particular that they are referring to. So, I've stopped using "bovines" too generically. When the animal I'm referring to is a wild cattle species, I'd rather say "wild cattle beast." I've noticed that the use of this "bovines" word can actually cause confusion in that it makes you think only gaurs, buffaloes, banteng, yak, bison and the likes are the group of animals called "bovines", when in reality, it's a very broad term that encompasses animals like impala, wildebeest, eland, musk-ox, goats, sheep, etc. So, in order not to speak too vaguely, I usually use the term "cattle" now. On the subject of "Bovid vs. Cervid", I actually agree that the "bovids are generally stronger, so it wins" argument is wrong. It's synonymous to the "leopard is a pantherine, so it beats cougar" argument. Another very wrong way of thinking. If this way of thinking was correct, then we might as well say "impala defeats moose, after all, the impala is a bovid, and the moose is a cervid", which is just laughable. |
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Post by wermthewerm on Nov 26, 2023 9:32:41 GMT
About this post, or moreso specifically:
"Cervids are generally weaker than bovines, the guys lions and tigers specialise on." is a bit of an overgeneralization. Cervids are weaker overall than members of the biggest of the Bovini tribe (I say biggest because there's no real reason to believe a saola or a mountain anoa would be stronger than a cervid of similar size) though. I assume that's what you meant by bovines?
Actually, when I said "bovines", I actually meant wild cattle species in particular, like gaur, buffaloes, and bison. I've recently decided to redefine the animals that many people call "bovines." Oftentimes, when people say "bovines", especially in the context that I did, it's actually cattle in particular that they are referring to. So, I've stopped using "bovines" too generically. When the animal I'm referring to is a wild cattle species, I'd rather say "wild cattle beast." I've noticed that the use of this "bovines" word can actually cause confusion in that it makes you think only gaurs, buffaloes, banteng, yak, bison and the likes are the group of animals called "bovines", when in reality, it's a very broad term that encompasses animals like impala, wildebeest, eland, musk-ox, goats, sheep, etc. So, in order not to speak too vaguely, I usually use the term "cattle" now. On the subject of "Bovid vs. Cervid", I actually agree that the "bovids are generally stronger, so it wins" argument is wrong. It's synonymous to the "leopard is a pantherine, so it beats cougar" argument. Another very wrong way of thinking. If this way of thinking was correct, then we might as well say "impala defeats moose, after all, the impala is a bovid, and the moose is a cervid", which is just laughable. Royal Antelope >>> Cervalces latifrons because it's a bovid
But yeah the whole "bovids are stronger than cervids" argument is probably one of the biggest overgeneralizations in AvA debates, ever. Probably along the lines of "felids > canids at parity" (including domestic dogs and ranging down to the small cats/dogs. Anywhere bigger than a cougar/leopard it's true but something like a maine coon isnt stronger than a jagdterrier for example) or as you said the whole "leopard > cougar because its a pantherine" claim.
Glad we're on the same page, though
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