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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 21:45:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 21:46:39 GMT
You didn't tag Ajay.
Mandrill 75/100 IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 21:49:55 GMT
50/50, the chimp is much larger but the mandrill has more formidable and dangerous canines.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 21:58:27 GMT
Agree with bolushi.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 21:58:54 GMT
50/50, the chimp is much larger but the mandrill has more formidable and dangerous canines. Oh... mandrill loses if it's at any significant size advantage sadly, but I doubt it is. I fucking love mandrills and baboons. I dislike chimps, they look lame. I believe they are close enough. Isn't it 72 vs 85lbs? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 22:02:39 GMT
50/50, the chimp is much larger but the mandrill has more formidable and dangerous canines. Oh... mandrill loses if it's at any significant size advantage sadly, but I doubt it is. I fucking love mandrills and baboons. I dislike chimps, they look lame. I believe they are close enough. Isn't it 72 vs 85lbs? They're our closest living relatives. I'm not sure, maybe you're right. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 22:04:15 GMT
Oh... mandrill loses if it's at any significant size advantage sadly, but I doubt it is. I fucking love mandrills and baboons. I dislike chimps, they look lame. I believe they are close enough. Isn't it 72 vs 85lbs? They're our closest living relatives. I'm not sure, maybe you're right. We're lame too, but chimps are all black and don't have any cool colors or teeth. Their dominant males are just bigger chimps. Pathetic. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 22:18:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2023 22:25:17 GMT
Changed my mind, the mandrill appears more robust and looks to have better stability. |
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Post by oldgreengrolar on Jan 20, 2023 7:20:01 GMT
Judging by the size comparisons, I will go for the mandrill.
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 20, 2023 8:14:16 GMT
There used to be a show called "chimpanzee diary" on BBC, not to be confused with "Chimp Diaries" on Nat Geo (the latter is captive chimps in a zoo), about the Chimps of Gombe Stream National Park in western Tanzania, and they pretty regularly would have skirmishes with the olive baboons. I watched this show when I was a teenager so the memory is kind of vague but I do recall that the chimpanzees were fearful of direct conflict but would tease and troll the baboons. However I think they were probably young "beta" chimps and the serious nasty boss males didn't engage in such silly nonsense. Perhaps on both sides.
Mandrills of course aren't baboons, but to me basically are. They are a case of convergent evolution, IMO they exceed baboons ever so slightly in formidability, and can essentially be considered "the ultimate baboon" (robusticity isn't everything, but supports this notion).
Chimps however ARE total nasty motherfuckers. Specifically the alpha males, there's not so much of a distinct clear indication in the anatomy that an alpha male chimp is a war-machine, like in mandrills, baboons and gorillas, but when you watch something like Chimpanzee Diary or similar you realise they are dirty evil ruthless murderous monsters in their own right.
I want to say mandrill (surely my favourite primate barring perhaps Homo Erectus, and in large part because they kick ass), but I'm not as confident as some of you seem to be.
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Post by theundertaker45 on Jan 20, 2023 9:52:31 GMT
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a prime male chimp from a large population is almost twice as heavy as a prime mandrill. Aside from being physically so much superior in terms of strength. I'd go as far as saying an alpha chimp would dismantle an alpha mandrill not just physically but also mentally. The huge teeth wouldn't be that much of a trump card when the mandrill won't get the chance to apply them properly. I'll go into the far opposite direction and say the chimp takes it easily and cleans house. Even though the mandrill is on the more robust side of baboons, it's still a glass canon compared to a chimpanzee who packs much more muscles and density per height. Baboons and so on are pretty aggressive and cool with their dangerous teeth but when you look at the three great apes and the morphometrics you'll see that they are physical wimps compared to them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2023 9:57:20 GMT
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a prime male chimp from a large population is almost twice as heavy as a prime mandrill. Aside from being physically so much superior in terms of strength. I'd go as far as saying an alpha chimp would dismantle an alpha mandrill not just physically but also mentally. The huge teeth wouldn't be that much of a trump card when the mandrill won't get the chance to apply them properly. I'll go into the far opposite direction and say the chimp takes it easily and cleans house. Even though the mandrill is on the more robust side of baboons, it's still a glass canon compared to a chimpanzee who packs much more muscles and density per height. Baboons and so on are pretty aggressive and cool with their dangerous teeth but when you look at the three great apes and the morphometrics you'll see that they are physical wimps compared to them. Yeah, if it's twice the size or anywhere vaguely close to it the mandrill is totally doomed. They're really not too horribly mismatched at parity, so a size advantage of any significance is instant win. |
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Post by theundertaker45 on Jan 20, 2023 10:11:01 GMT
Here is some weight data for both:   When we leave hunting records aside, the heaviest wild mandrills are about 40kg and the heaviest wild chimps about 70kg; so almost twice the size. Otherwise it would be 55kg and 90kg I think but I don't believe either one of those accounts is reliable. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 20, 2023 10:35:29 GMT
Yeah I think I was being wishful seeing support for the Mandrill and even giving it a chance probably isn't plausible in best vs best max male.
I'm a bit confused by the layout of the chimp data.
I see mandrill males included ranged from 25-36 kgs. Sounds about right.
Male chimps on the left are described as ranging from 46-49 kgs, but then on the right they mention just 59.7 kg by itself?
I will say 36 vs 49... I wouldn't totally rule out Mandrill. I think as badass as chimps are they still have a hell of a shit-fight on their hands. I'm thinking of 36 kg dogs fighting 50 kg dogs and it's a "surmountable" size discrepancy EVEN if the 50 kg dog is legit.
36 kgs mandrill vs 59.7 kgs chimp and I feel the blood draining from my face... I just can't see how that would go well for the mandrill at all.
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