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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2023 4:42:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2023 4:43:03 GMT
I’m leaning towards the dire wolf for this one due to its powerful jaws.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2023 5:20:30 GMT
Lol what? I wouldn't favor a TM over an MV wolf. They have a rough time with Himalayan wolves. Tossup between 'em.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2023 8:41:42 GMT
Dire wolf wins, more robust than modern wolves, stronger bite, predatory instinct and isn't as overrated.
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 9, 2023 11:31:08 GMT
Dire wolf, way too quick and athletic. It might surprise some to know the Tibetan mastiff is actually MORE robust, but that's not enough, it's way too sluggish and also has no real offense. It's JUST durable. The durability is an issue against other dogs sometimes but won't be for something with the Dire wolf's firepower.
The dire wolf is actually best understood as no wolf at all, but more accurately a giant Dhole. Like the dhole and AWD the dire wolf had no sexual dimorphism and they worked in well oiled family units to target very very large prey. It was probably a very impressive predator given these indications. In the same way the dhole is, proportionately.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2023 11:40:24 GMT
Bolushi what if you got a Tibetan mastiff with very good working genetics and a great dogman trained it from birth to be the best gamedog it was capable of. How does that TM now go against MV or dire wolf, assuming they're all coming in at 120 lbs?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2023 11:42:39 GMT
Dire wolf, way too quick and athletic. It might surprise some to know the Tibetan mastiff is actually MORE robust, but that's not enough, it's way too sluggish and also has no real offense. It's JUST durable. The durability is an issue against other dogs sometimes but won't be for something with the Dire wolf's firepower. The dire wolf is actually best understood as no wolf at all, but more accurately a giant Dhole. Like the dhole and AWD the dire wolf had no sexual dimorphism and they worked in well oiled family units to target very very large prey. It was probably a very impressive predator given these indications. In the same way the dhole is, proportionately. Yeah I'd have assumed TM was more robust than dire wolf. But TM isn't a good fighter. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2023 14:06:14 GMT
Bolushi what if you got a Tibetan mastiff with very good working genetics and a great dogman trained it from birth to be the best gamedog it was capable of. How does that TM now go against MV or dire wolf, assuming they're all coming in at 120 lbs? TM clobbers if it has an APBT brain. Too strong. But it does not. If the dogman cannot do that then TM is dead. Matter of fact it really is not able to handle the rigorous conditioning and training. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2023 14:22:14 GMT
Dire wolf, way too quick and athletic. It might surprise some to know the Tibetan mastiff is actually MORE robust, but that's not enough, it's way too sluggish and also has no real offense. It's JUST durable. The durability is an issue against other dogs sometimes but won't be for something with the Dire wolf's firepower. The dire wolf is actually best understood as no wolf at all, but more accurately a giant Dhole. Like the dhole and AWD the dire wolf had no sexual dimorphism and they worked in well oiled family units to target very very large prey. It was probably a very impressive predator given these indications. In the same way the dhole is, proportionately. I said that too and was told "no" |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 9, 2023 14:25:26 GMT
Dire wolf, way too quick and athletic. It might surprise some to know the Tibetan mastiff is actually MORE robust, but that's not enough, it's way too sluggish and also has no real offense. It's JUST durable. The durability is an issue against other dogs sometimes but won't be for something with the Dire wolf's firepower. The dire wolf is actually best understood as no wolf at all, but more accurately a giant Dhole. Like the dhole and AWD the dire wolf had no sexual dimorphism and they worked in well oiled family units to target very very large prey. It was probably a very impressive predator given these indications. In the same way the dhole is, proportionately. I said that too and was told "no" Which part? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2023 14:54:01 GMT
Are the “Pleistocene wolves” in the Vindolanda study dire wolves?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2023 15:12:34 GMT
I said that too and was told "no" Which part? giant dhole thing |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 9, 2023 15:41:17 GMT
Are the “Pleistocene wolves” in the Vindolanda study dire wolves? No. They are grey wolves from a population that was more robust. Grey wolves actually used to be more diverse, they have since bottlenecked, nearly went extinct, and those that remain are all more gracile than SOME of the grey wolf populations in the Pleistocene. But even pleistocene wolves weren't that robust. Dire wolves were more robust than pleistocene grey wolves, but still nothing crazy. Less robust than many domestic dogs. And I want to say I THINK they're more robust than pleistocene wolves, because when I have begged for the evidence they are more robust I have struggled to get a straight answer. There's even weird fake size comparisons like this-  Pretty impressive right? But wait a minute.. there were two subspecies of dire wolves; Dirus Guildayi and Dirus Dirus, Dirus Dirus was AS TALL as the grey wolf, Guildayi was shorter. So what is this thing that is way taller than a grey wolf? When I adjust this so they are the same shoulder height (which is best case scenario for the bigger dirus dirus), you get this-  It's hard to see a robusticity advantage. Maybe? If there is it is very small. Then compare that with this-  That's a great dane on the left, a wolf on the right. NOW the robusticity difference is obvious. Inspect each bone and you can see that every single one is massively more robust in the great dane. You would have expected a dire wolf vs grey wolf comparison to look more like this. But it just doesn't. Other dire wolf skeletons...   Look the more I have learned about Dire Wolves, the more I love them. I think they are cool as shit. But this idea they're massively more robust than grey wolves is just dubious to say the least. There was a funny episode on carnivora where I just challenged the whole board to show me some kind of evidence (which I downgraded to "vague clue" to give them a chance after I got nothing) that the dire wolf was more robust than a dog, no one could do anything but be all "pfft this is ridiculous, what is becoming of carnivora?!" and there was just nothing, crickets. Chui upvoted one of my posts among the drama because it was just undeniable that I had the whole board fucked. Dire wolves are awesome, but not in a "Behemoth heavy beast" way, in a 30-36 inch tall dhole kind of way. That's their reality. And that's enough to beat a tibetan mastiff, most dogs... not sure about all, however. It's definitely giving up a strength advantage to a lot of dogs. It's bite may be better, however. It's dentition I think for sure. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jan 9, 2023 15:41:55 GMT
Who said no? It's an argument I'd like to have, because the clues are very strong. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2023 20:20:24 GMT
No doubt. I just thought if it was trained to its maximum capability would it now give as good as it got with parity wolf. I guess the best training it can do is still so limited it's still out of the contest, right? And it just doesn't have a gamedog brain like you said. But does a dog need to have a full-on gamedog brain to equal wolf? The wolf certainly doesn't have one. If you picked the gamest pup from an excellent working TM litter and trained it to the best of it's ability, why couldn't it equal parity wolf? Perhaps only if this TM was still a very ungame dog would it lose. Is that the case that your best gamest TM is still too ungame to properly fight the wolf? |
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