Megalodon vs Livyatan

[Deleted]

Dec 29, 2022 18:43:50 GMT @ling said:

@hammerhead

Thoughts?

I think the Livyatan would win. They both have similar agility. However, the only real advantage I see for the Megalodon is its jaws.

Meanwhile, the Livyatan can ram as well as bite, likely has higher stamina, can tail-swipe, is more intelligent, has blubber, and possibly a size advantage.

[Deleted]

Dec 29, 2022 19:00:11 GMT @hammerhead said:

Dec 29, 2022 18:43:50 GMT @ling said:

@hammerhead

Thoughts?

I think the Livyatan would win. They both have similar agility. However, the only real advantage I see for the Megalodon is its jaws.

Meanwhile, the Livyatan can ram as well as bite, likely has higher stamina, can tail-swipe, is more intelligent, has blubber, and possibly a size advantage.

Nice.

I'm going to make a size comparison using both of their highest estimates.

[Deleted]

Bolushi oldgreengrolar @hammerhead Hardcastle @ajay

10 m and 13. 5 m - 

20 m and 17.5 m -

[Hardcastle]

Dec 29, 2022 18:56:16 GMT @ling said:

Dec 29, 2022 18:46:50 GMT Hardcastle said:

Successful, but not too successful. The depictions are all something that would be too absurdly successful to exist.

So what, do you think the experts working on the study are wrong and its complete bullshit while you're correct.

- Like if the experts wouldn't have noticed the crazy size estimate.

The massive size MAY be right(and make no mistake, may be wrong also), but then it comes with the baggage of defficiencies in other areas to balance out a real animal that can actually exist. There's no cheating to rise above the rest of the animal kingdom and be the ultimate animal. Well, humans did it, once, and the world has basically imploded as a result. That's a long story in itself, but the megalodon did not become civilised, it was a slave to nature and had to be in harmony with it's prey, with viable predator/prey dynamics (which means prey > predator).

[Deleted]

Dec 29, 2022 19:19:25 GMT Hardcastle said:

The massive size MAY be right(and make no mistake, may be wrong also), but then it comes with the baggage of defficiencies in other areas to balance out a real animal that can actually exist. There's no cheating to rise above the rest of the animal kingdom and be the ultimate animal. Well, humans did it, once, and the world has basically imploded as a result. That's a long story in itself, but the megalodon did not become civilised, it was a slave to nature and had to be in harmony with it's prey, with viable predator/prey dynamics (which means prey > predator).

We should also remember that Livyatan has a high estimate of 17.5 m too.

[Hardcastle]

Yes and the rules apply to it also. Real living bull sperm whales get to 24 metres, but they are sluggish and slow moving and can't really prey on large animals (partly also thanks to a mandible somewhat specialised for cephalopods). They aren't some super predator obliterating everything they come across in the ocean, and neither was livyatan and neither was Meg. For lack of a better term, somehow they all "sucked". All predators do and all predators always have. They've been something their prey can beat most of the time. The way Meg is portrayed as a great white shark that's 50 times larger (50 tonnes vs 1, according to some) but somehow loses no mobility... such an animal could not be stopped and every whale would be smashed in half like that silly gif I posted. Something is going wrong in the speculations obviously.

[Deleted]

I agree with @ling in that the Megalodon was more successful as a predator. It had a much longer “reign”, if you will.

[Deleted]

Besides a few notable exceptions like dragonflies, orcas, and humans I think @hardcastle is correct about predators losing to their prey most of the time.

[Deleted]

Dec 29, 2022 19:30:35 GMT Hardcastle said:

Yes and the rules apply to it also. Real living bull sperm whales get to 24 metres, but they are sluggish and slow moving and can't really prey on large animals (partly also thanks to a mandible somewhat specialised for cephalopods). They aren't some super predator obliterating everything they come across in the ocean, and neither was livyatan and neither was Meg. For lack of a better term, somehow they all "sucked". All predators do and all predators always have. They've been something their prey can beat most of the time. The way Meg is portrayed as a great white shark that's 50 times larger (50 tonnes vs 1, according to some) but somehow loses no mobility... such an animal could not be stopped and every whale would be smashed in half like that silly gif I posted. Something is going wrong in the speculations obviously.

I believe Megalodon would've been capable of performing short but fast bursts of speed, which would've been used to hunt prey.

1:10

As even Basking sharks are capable of doing this

0:45

[Deleted]

Dec 29, 2022 19:50:32 GMT @ling said:

Dec 29, 2022 19:30:35 GMT Hardcastle said:

Yes and the rules apply to it also. Real living bull sperm whales get to 24 metres, but they are sluggish and slow moving and can't really prey on large animals (partly also thanks to a mandible somewhat specialised for cephalopods). They aren't some super predator obliterating everything they come across in the ocean, and neither was livyatan and neither was Meg. For lack of a better term, somehow they all "sucked". All predators do and all predators always have. They've been something their prey can beat most of the time. The way Meg is portrayed as a great white shark that's 50 times larger (50 tonnes vs 1, according to some) but somehow loses no mobility... such an animal could not be stopped and every whale would be smashed in half like that silly gif I posted. Something is going wrong in the speculations obviously.

I believe Megalodon would've been capable of performing short but fast bursts of speed, which would've been used to hunt prey.

1:10

As even Basking sharks are capable of doing this

0:45

@ling brings up a good point. Multiple species of large sharks are capable of short bursts of speed.
Greenland shark:
”Specially adapted for cold water, this shark’s tissues contain high levels of chemical compounds that act like anti-freeze and prevent ice crystals forming in the body. These sharks conserve energy by swimming very slowly—about 1.12 feet per second—but can exhibit short bursts of speed to ambush prey.”
Great hammerhead sharks hunting smaller and faster blacktip sharks-

[Deleted]

Dec 29, 2022 19:56:09 GMT @hammerhead said:

Dec 29, 2022 19:50:32 GMT @ling said:

I believe Megalodon would've been capable of performing short but fast bursts of speed, which would've been used to hunt prey.

1:10

As even Basking sharks are capable of doing this

0:45

@ling brings up a good point. Multiple species of large sharks are capable of short bursts of speed.
Greenland shark:
”Specially adapted for cold water, this shark’s tissues contain high levels of chemical compounds that act like anti-freeze and prevent ice crystals forming in the body. These sharks conserve energy by swimming very slowly—about 1.12 feet per second—but can exhibit short bursts of speed to ambush prey.”
Great hammerhead sharks hunting smaller and faster blacktip sharks-

Well said. 👍

[Deleted]

When great white sharks ambush fur seals from below they also display impressive bursts of speed. I think it’s possible Megalodon could have done something similar. Sure, it’s less agile than a gws but whales are less agile than seals.

[Hardcastle]

Well whales, especially baleen whales, are WAY WAY WAY less agile than seals. I just sincerely wonder how they dealt with Megalodon.

[Deleted]

Megalodon did prey on Piscobaleana which was fairly small and agile so I think it had to have been capable of some degree of speed.

[Hardcastle]

So how do you imagine baleen whales evaded predation? Or did they just not and were sitting ducks that got obliterated at will?