Smilodon,The Overpowered True King of the Big Cats !

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2023 12:01:58 GMT Hardcastle said:

Jul 5, 2023 11:32:03 GMT kevin said:

How would Smilodon fatalis and Smilodon Populator fit in the following graph ?



When we divide ML humerus diameter by humerus length, we get 12,71% for Smilodon fatalis as per the latest dataset :
www.researchgate.net/publication/230843015_Postcranial_morphology_and_the_locomotor_habits_of_living_and_extinct_carnivores
And we get 11,4% for Smilodon Populator as per this study :
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16235255/

According to these numbers, we conclude that both Sabertooth species outscored a large number of felid,canid,hyeanid,mustelid,and Ursid species with fatalis being at the very top alongside roman bulldogs and Populator being a worthy rival for sloth bears in relative humeral robusticity. Credit to Hardcastle for the graph.

It's high time I fix that graph, there's minor issues and confusions with the dogs, and while I'm at it I could add smilodons (fatalis and populator) and possibly dire wolves.

Can you add the Brown bear too?

[kevin]

Jul 5, 2023 12:04:24 GMT @ling said:

Jul 5, 2023 12:01:58 GMT Hardcastle said:

It's high time I fix that graph, there's minor issues and confusions with the dogs, and while I'm at it I could add smilodons (fatalis and populator) and possibly dire wolves.

Can you add the Brown bear too?

For Brown Bears, we have 10,8%-n=9 :

www.researchgate.net/publication/20806549_Differential_scaling_of_the_long_bones_in_the_terrestrial_carnivora_and_other_mammals

www.researchgate.net/publication/230843015_Postcranial_morphology_and_the_locomotor_habits_of_living_and_extinct_carnivores

If you add that one bear which scored 13,3% , you get 11,05%-n=10

[Hardcastle]

Jul 5, 2023 12:04:24 GMT @ling said:

Jul 5, 2023 12:01:58 GMT Hardcastle said:

It's high time I fix that graph, there's minor issues and confusions with the dogs, and while I'm at it I could add smilodons (fatalis and populator) and possibly dire wolves.

Can you add the Brown bear too?

Yeah it was oddly absent from the carnivore limb robusticity study I think, but I will add it in accordance with Kevin's figures. Could add others as well. Red foxes and dingoes spring to mind.

Edit - well we now have eurasian red fox, not even sure if it is different from american yet (just realised american is in there).

[Hardcastle]

May have to start from scratch, I can't find the original and just grabbing these images they are kind of small and unclear. So yeah, give me time.

[kevin]

Comparing Smilodon Fatalis and Homotherium Serum :

justpaste.it/8tc3z

[kevin]

Scientific evidence of Smilodon fatalis having proportionally stronger shoulders than Wolverines :

Scapula Shape Index:
It's scapula width/forelimb length ratio.Higher score indicates greater muscle attachement on the shoulder joint as well as greater ability to make certain movements like full-functional upper extremity movement including protraction, retraction, elevation, depression, upward rotation,and downward rotation all else being equal.
S.Fatalis : 24%
G.Gulo : 19%
Edge : S.Fatalis
Scapula Length Index:
Scapula length divided by Forelimb length.Higher score Indicates exertion of greater force from the Forelimb.
S.Fatalis : 33%
G.Gulo : 27%
Edge : S.Fatalis
API:
Acromion process length/forelimb length.Higher score in this ratio increases attachment for the deltoid muscle.
S.Fatalis : 2%
G.Gulo : 4%
Edge : G.Gulo
SMI:
Deltopectoral crest length divided by humerus length. Higher score Displays greater mechanical advantage of deltoid and pectoral muscles at the shoulder joint.
S.Fatalis : 64%
G.Gulo : 53%
Edge : S.Fatalis

Overall : S.Fatalis

References:

www.researchgate.net/p..._living_and_extinct_carnivores

academic.oup.com/zooli...nean/article/151/4/833/2607398

[kevin]

Comparing Smilodon fatalis and polar bears :

justpaste.it/2ltqs

[kevin]

Scientific evidence of Smilodon fatalis having proportionally stronger shoulders than honey badgers :

Scapula Shape Index:
It's scapula width/forelimb length ratio.Higher score indicates greater muscle attachement on the shoulder joint as well as greater ability to make certain movements like full-functional upper extremity movement including protraction, retraction, elevation, depression, upward rotation,and downward rotation all else being equal.
S.Fatalis : 24%
M.Capensis : 20%
Edge : S.Fatalis
Scapula Length Index:
Scapula length divided by Forelimb length.Higher score Indicates exertion of greater force from the Forelimb.
S.Fatalis : 33%
M.Capensis : 30%
Edge : S.Fatalis
API:
Acromion process length/forelimb length.Higher score in this ratio increases attachment for the deltoid muscle.
S.Fatalis : 2%
M.Capensis : 6%
Edge : M.Capensis
SMI:
Deltopectoral crest length divided by humerus length. Higher score Displays greater mechanical advantage of deltoid and pectoral muscles at the shoulder joint.
S.Fatalis : 64%
M.Capensis : 54%
Edge : S.Fatalis

Overall : S.Fatalis

References:

www.researchgate.net/p..._living_and_extinct_carnivores

academic.oup.com/zooli...nean/article/151/4/833/2607398

[kevin]

Comparing Smilodon fatalis and the Pleistocene Rancho la brea grizzly bear :

justpaste.it/849bm

[kevin]

Smilodon Populator vs Ursus arctos :

justpaste.it/ddjyv

[kevin]

There are other Sabertooth cat genera such as machairodus and homotherium . However, Smilodon was the most powerful of them all :


academic.oup.com/zoolinnean/article/151/2/423/2630862

[kevin]

Relative humerus robusticity comparison between Smilodon Populator and Xenosmilus Hodsonae !

HRI :
It is humerus mediolateral diameter at mid-shaft/humerus length.Robust forelimb bones
protect the animal from violent stresses during grappling.
S.Populator : 11%
X.Hodsonae : 10%
Edge : S.Populator
HRI2 :
It is humerus anteroposterior diameter at mid-shaft/humerus length. Robust forelimb bones
protect the animal from violent stresses during grappling.
S.Populator : 14%
X.Hodsonae : 12%
Edge : S.Populator

Overall : S.Populator

References :

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16235255

books.google.co.ma/boo...n%20hemisphere&f=false

[kevin]

Additional features that Smilodon had in comparison to modern felids :


www.amazon.com/Smilodon-Iconic-Sabertooth-Lars-Werdelin/dp/1421425564

[s]

Jul 5, 2023 12:30:50 GMT Hardcastle said:

May have to start from scratch, I can't find the original and just grabbing these images they are kind of small and unclear. So yeah, give me time.

Hardcastle i have a genuine question, at a parity weight of your choice, who would you back between Smilodon Populator/Smilodon Fatalis (assume it's a mini-version, much smaller but is just as proportionally robust as their standard versions and it's weaponry is just as powerful proportionally) and an elite best of the best Bulldog, Hércules or Camoral tier?

[Hardcastle]

Aug 28, 2023 14:42:40 GMT s said:

Jul 5, 2023 12:30:50 GMT Hardcastle said:

May have to start from scratch, I can't find the original and just grabbing these images they are kind of small and unclear. So yeah, give me time.

Hardcastle i have a genuine question, at a parity weight of your choice, who would you back between Smilodon Populator/Smilodon Fatalis (assume it's a mini-version, much smaller but is just as proportionally robust as their standard versions and it's weaponry is just as powerful proportionally) and an elite best of the best Bulldog, Hércules or Camoral tier?

Well in case you missed the updated robusticity chart-


Forget about me, everyone should basically follow this chart. Or basically to go against it you need a good argument and good evidence, this should be the "common sense" baseline.