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Post by Bolushi on Jun 12, 2023 20:41:36 GMT
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Post by lycaon on Jun 16, 2023 3:38:50 GMT
I'd love to be able to favor the dogs but I think that you need gripping dogs to take on a big cat. Galgo are formidable breeds but their hunting style plays right into the performance of the feline, which is the fac these dogs are calculated and precise. On most dangerous animals that precision works well, like against wolves, baboons, hyena, etc; but the cats played this game for millions of years and it's just better at it. Any opening the dog tries to exploit the cat will cover it, and every time the cat makes a move the dog will work around for optimal coverage, this dance allows that critical breather where it can recharge and restart the fight. Naturally the big will lose stamina but for a feline to have such a good size advantage over a dog, it really needs the dog to slip up once to make a lasting impact for the battle.
If we had one galgo and one dogo the dogs would win, because the dogo will take the heat and burn the cat out while the galgo can safely apply optimum bites.
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Post by Hardcastle on Jun 16, 2023 4:08:36 GMT
I'd love to be able to favor the dogs but I think that you need gripping dogs to take on a big cat. Galgo are formidable breeds but their hunting style plays right into the performance of the feline, which is the fac these dogs are calculated and precise. On most dangerous animals that precision works well, like against wolves, baboons, hyena, etc; but the cats played this game for millions of years and it's just better at it. Any opening the dog tries to exploit the cat will cover it, and every time the cat makes a move the dog will work around for optimal coverage, this dance allows that critical breather where it can recharge and restart the fight. Naturally the big will lose stamina but for a feline to have such a good size advantage over a dog, it really needs the dog to slip up once to make a lasting impact for the battle. If we had one galgo and one dogo the dogs would win, because the dogo will take the heat and burn the cat out while the galgo can safely apply optimum bites. I'd agree with that if we were talking about staghounds, in fact that is pretty much exactly the assessment I'd give. Even for big 110 lbs staghounds. I just get the impression the GP is a little more than that. I would classify it as a "wolfhound", more in line with the maritsane/steekhars in africa and various wolfhound crosses we use in Australia, the upper echelon of which really don't lack much compared to a dogo IMO, if at all. Probably lack in collision/impact durability compared to a dogo, but not really in a way that makes them more vulnerable to leopards and not really any weaker than a dogo offensively either (I think they can actually be a lot bigger than a functional dogo). Might depend on the GP, some seem to be down closer to straight sighthounds while others clearly have a pretty hefty bull component. |
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Post by Bolushi on Jun 16, 2023 4:21:55 GMT
I know there's a bulldog here but the Galgo Patagonico is there for a reason too, and it will be making first contact -  Mind you Argentina's hogs are bigger than most and mean too. There's a lot of variety within the breed, a pair of Galgo Patagonicos like the ones in the OP I believe would have a very good chance. Some of them -  Not so much. A dog like this ^ is one where Lycaon's arguments will most definitely apply since it's just a staghound. |
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Post by Bolushi on Jun 16, 2023 4:30:23 GMT
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Post by lycaon on Jun 17, 2023 3:37:50 GMT
I'd love to be able to favor the dogs but I think that you need gripping dogs to take on a big cat. Galgo are formidable breeds but their hunting style plays right into the performance of the feline, which is the fac these dogs are calculated and precise. On most dangerous animals that precision works well, like against wolves, baboons, hyena, etc; but the cats played this game for millions of years and it's just better at it. Any opening the dog tries to exploit the cat will cover it, and every time the cat makes a move the dog will work around for optimal coverage, this dance allows that critical breather where it can recharge and restart the fight. Naturally the big will lose stamina but for a feline to have such a good size advantage over a dog, it really needs the dog to slip up once to make a lasting impact for the battle. If we had one galgo and one dogo the dogs would win, because the dogo will take the heat and burn the cat out while the galgo can safely apply optimum bites. I'd agree with that if we were talking about staghounds, in fact that is pretty much exactly the assessment I'd give. Even for big 110 lbs staghounds. I just get the impression the GP is a little more than that. I would classify it as a "wolfhound", more in line with the maritsane/steekhars in africa and various wolfhound crosses we use in Australia, the upper echelon of which really don't lack much compared to a dogo IMO, if at all. Probably lack in collision/impact durability compared to a dogo, but not really in a way that makes them more vulnerable to leopards and not really any weaker than a dogo offensively either (I think they can actually be a lot bigger than a functional dogo). Might depend on the GP, some seem to be down closer to straight sighthounds while others clearly have a pretty hefty bull component. It probably is down to the GP as you stated. Keeping that I mind I came across this video of interest. Here we have a GP teamed up with another dog (no idea of the breed) against a puma. The GP faced off with the puma at 00:15 seconds and tried to strike the cat's throat. It was a great attempt but the cat intercepted it by a split second and reversed the role. The dog was eager to continue the hunt once freed but still continued its style to look for an opening. I really wanted the GP to connect that throat hold so we can see how it takes a clawing.  |
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Post by Bolushi on Jun 17, 2023 6:45:01 GMT
I'd agree with that if we were talking about staghounds, in fact that is pretty much exactly the assessment I'd give. Even for big 110 lbs staghounds. I just get the impression the GP is a little more than that. I would classify it as a "wolfhound", more in line with the maritsane/steekhars in africa and various wolfhound crosses we use in Australia, the upper echelon of which really don't lack much compared to a dogo IMO, if at all. Probably lack in collision/impact durability compared to a dogo, but not really in a way that makes them more vulnerable to leopards and not really any weaker than a dogo offensively either (I think they can actually be a lot bigger than a functional dogo). Might depend on the GP, some seem to be down closer to straight sighthounds while others clearly have a pretty hefty bull component. It probably is down to the GP as you stated. Keeping that I mind I came across this video of interest. Here we have a GP teamed up with another dog (no idea of the breed) against a puma. The GP faced off with the puma at 00:15 seconds and tried to strike the cat's throat. It was a great attempt but the cat intercepted it by a split second and reversed the role. The dog was eager to continue the hunt once freed but still continued its style to look for an opening. I really wanted the GP to connect that throat hold so we can see how it takes a clawing. I don't think that's not a Galgo Patagonico but instead a Galgo Espanol. The difference is significant. One courses hares and kills guanaco in groups of 3 or more. One hunts alone or in pairs most of the time, regularly takes down guanaco and occasionally red deer (stags too) and has a fair bit to do with the cougar, and lugs the odd boar here and there. The mongrel sheepdog (translate the title) is doing no worse, realistically a bit better, than the Spanish greyhound in that video. Throw a big bad GP into the mix after those 2 dogs have messed with the cougar for some time and I think we've got a dead cat on our hands. If that is in fact a Galgo Patagonico I will be surprised since I never got that impression. When I'm home later tomorrow I'm gonna take a good close look at it. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jun 17, 2023 7:06:55 GMT
After "reviewing" all the images of GPs again I'd say I maybe over-stated the difference between them and staghounds. Many, maybe even most, are pretty much exactly like staghounds. However some do seem to range up to "wolfhound" (and whenever I say that I really mean historic wolfhounds, and the very wolfhound-esque working dogs that still exist) and have maybe a 1/4 bull type of build.
Cool video, but not sure I'd even say thats a Galgo Patagonico. It seems in latin america the "mongrel" still definitely rules, and most working hunting dogs aren't pure; whether we're talking galgo patagonicos, galgo espanols or dogo argentinos or whatever. These pop up here and there but mostly you seem to just see mutts. The "dogal" I'm happy to use liberally and loosely because it really is a type of mutt that is dogo x sighthound, but the galgo patagonico is actually a "breed" technically, recognised by a kennel club and everything. So when we're talking galgo patagonicos they really need to look like a 30+ inch deerhound kind of dog to qualify. The one up there with the knifed guanaco I also wouldn't say is a GP. The two in the OP are even a little dubious (even though they might be 2 of the coolest looking dogs I've seen- THOSE 2 vs a big cat would be interesting IMO).
The dog in that video definitely has a bunch of sighthound and a little bull probably, but my guess wouldn't be it is a gp. I'd say a galgo espanol based lurcher. Not saying that is here or there for the outcome of the video or the fight, just saying.
Other than that, yeah I probably lean back closer to your initial assessment, at least for most GPs. Most pretty much are just nice big staghounds and yeah I probably do consider that type, the "long dog", a little "light in the loafers" to take on a leopard. But just a BIT more substance up to a wolfhound-y type, I think 2 would be enough. I've seen dogs like what I have in mind. I might have to seek out the photos.
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Post by Bolushi on Jun 17, 2023 20:09:52 GMT
I'd agree with that if we were talking about staghounds, in fact that is pretty much exactly the assessment I'd give. Even for big 110 lbs staghounds. I just get the impression the GP is a little more than that. I would classify it as a "wolfhound", more in line with the maritsane/steekhars in africa and various wolfhound crosses we use in Australia, the upper echelon of which really don't lack much compared to a dogo IMO, if at all. Probably lack in collision/impact durability compared to a dogo, but not really in a way that makes them more vulnerable to leopards and not really any weaker than a dogo offensively either (I think they can actually be a lot bigger than a functional dogo). Might depend on the GP, some seem to be down closer to straight sighthounds while others clearly have a pretty hefty bull component. It probably is down to the GP as you stated. Keeping that I mind I came across this video of interest. Here we have a GP teamed up with another dog (no idea of the breed) against a puma. The GP faced off with the puma at 00:15 seconds and tried to strike the cat's throat. It was a great attempt but the cat intercepted it by a split second and reversed the role. The dog was eager to continue the hunt once freed but still continued its style to look for an opening. I really wanted the GP to connect that throat hold so we can see how it takes a clawing. From a computer what I can work out from this video is that it's not a pure Galgo Espanol. It's also a little hairy, so it's either a staghound-type sighthound or a lurcher made with herder. The fact that staghound (I'll go that route) is being outgrappled tells me it would be killed alone and if it had a friend that wouldn't make a difference since it has little in the way of helping. This makes me less confident for our Galgo Patagonico but still think a wolfhound/deerhound type topples the leopard over, especially 2 of them. Then it's just claws and trying not to be overpowered, 2 dogs involved provides the support necessary to avoid being overpowered by the leopard in a significant way, but the occasional outgrapple and yelp here and there is to be expected. It's confirmed a 55lb cougar's claws is not much to a wolfhound, for what it's worth. It isn't worth much but at 55lbs they are immune to cougar claws. How this will translate to a leopard fight I don't know, but it lets me know they aren't total shit with claws at least. |
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Post by Hardcastle on Jun 17, 2023 23:10:05 GMT
To my eye it's not the "style of hairy" you get with deerhound admixture (even in a small amount), it looks close to smooth but with maybe a little bushiness in the tail which may mean it is densely coated or undercoated. To me I think it has galgo espanol, some kind of bull (possibly dogo due to where it is, but probably apbt or ebt) but also definitely some kind of collie.  Which is a very handy style of lurcher, especially popular in the UK, but stands to reason it would be made anywhere where a dog is expected to target a wide variety of game. It's not very big at all. Maybe 60-65 lbs, and 25 inches or so. This is not to "excuse" the performance or argue for the GP, I just don't think it is a GP. I also don't think the puma is big. I also think it did fine in a "rough cur" style of way. Many GPs probably would behave the same anyway. It could be a fair analogue for GP vs bigger puma, but yeah most significantly it is not a big dog or a big puma. |
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Wyatt
Ruminant
Posts: 178
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Post by Wyatt on Jun 18, 2023 14:26:54 GMT
I don’t favor a Galgo Patagonico over a cat because theres really no reason to favor them, even though to be frankly fair they do seem tall which could add some advantage. But a gripping dog is the only dog that fends well against cats, due to the fact they are bred for subjugating/subduing/seizing dangerous animals. This includes big cats. And the dog rushes in, makes the big cat have no other escape, and the cat mostly then either chooses to fight more or give up. There is the possibility the cat could fight back, mostly with either a paw swipe or a puncturing bite. But the gripping dog is meant to take blows like this, even from raging bovines. So the gripping dog here is the only dog that fends well against big cats for that reason.
Since this is a Galgo, they seem to fend pretty well against most things, like Guanaco which are great at fending off predators.
It is also the fact if this were Galgo vs Puma, I may have a different opinion. But since this is Galgo vs African Leopard, it seems I don’t favor the Galgo much at all. The leopard seems too powerful for the Galgo to withstand, and are not a cat that just any dog can fend well against, and about the only dog that I can see fending well here is a gripping dog. Nothing else.
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