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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2023 21:56:05 GMT
I believe the Stag would win against a smaller Eurasian wolf. But keep in mind the thread doesn’t realize, hunting wolves are leagues above hunting coyotes. Coyotes give up fighting when they realize they’re outnumbered by a huge pack of wolves or dogs. Wolves don’t. They’ll fight to the death and use anything they can if they’re lone, whether they win or not. I’d actually say due to its a Eurasian I don’t disagree much, and the stag there could definitely be evasive. Giving the stag the upper hand. But if this was a Northwestern wolf the issue would be the wolf would be too large and slow and the stag would be too fast, it would be like warfare. But the Northwestern wolf could also overpower the stag. So, going with stag. A wolf or coyote is used to especially shitty situations and if coyotes were masochists they would not be around. If a coyote is shot and surrounded by 8 blueticks, 7 plotthounds and 3 oorang strain airedale terriers it will do whatever possible to try and live. So will wolves. Weird idea you pulled out of somewhere... Yes I was wrong, I forgot a coyote may miserably try to fight a pack of wolves or dogs, but its not on the level of a wolf nor will it ever reach that point. Oh btw a wolf would kill 8 blueticks, and 7 plotthounds. They’ve already done so. Airedale Terriers though, im gonna say they’ll very much stand a chance |
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Post by Bolushi on May 25, 2023 22:37:37 GMT
A wolf or coyote is used to especially shitty situations and if coyotes were masochists they would not be around. If a coyote is shot and surrounded by 8 blueticks, 7 plotthounds and 3 oorang strain airedale terriers it will do whatever possible to try and live. So will wolves. Weird idea you pulled out of somewhere... Yes I was wrong, I forgot a coyote may miserably try to fight a pack of wolves or dogs, but its not on the level of a wolf nor will it ever reach that point. Oh btw a wolf would kill 8 blueticks, and 7 plotthounds. They’ve already done so. Airedale Terriers though, im gonna say they’ll very much stand a chance They haven't done that... they've decimated packs of 5 though without a scratch so yeah it's possible depending on how shit the dogs are. However if the dogs beat up a wolf and nip it and cause the wolf to run we won't know about it either so... "the padded record" applies here. But yes a wolf could steamroll a pack like that. The pack of dogs in my scenario would butcher 1-2 wolves. Even 3, with the scenthounds distracting and nipping and giving the Airedales an opening. 1 wolf gets decimated. The point is, coyotes don't give up and neither do wolves or jackals or hyenas etc. Felines are one of the only animals that may throw in the towel on rare occasion when out in the open and assailed. Snow leopards sometimes just shut down when surrounded by Tibetan Mastiffs and the farmer, they freeze up and walk at a normal pace in the opposite direction. I'm not so sure if this is the SL not giving a shit or going into shock. Cougars, we have a video of one just breaking down in a cage and refusing to fight back. Lynxes can literally get stressed to death by a redbone barking at it too much... |
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ophio
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Post by ophio on May 26, 2023 0:22:42 GMT
Honestly wolves struggle against multiple coyotes. Here 4 small western coyotes displace a wolf from its kill if 7 dogs knew what they were doing, the wolf would either be running or dead "And even though coyotes, at about 30 pounds, are a third the size of the average wolf, they are not pushovers. Only when a pack of wolves outnumbers coyotes do they attack; when there are more coyotes, they will attack wolves. Crabtree is not aware of any coyotes killing adult wolves, but thinks they might have killed some pups. Biologists watched one scene unfold in which four coyotes attacked a wolf pup. A female wolf chased the coyotes off, but eventually they turned on her and pinned her down. She escaped, and swam across the Lamar River, where she was attacked on the other side by another pack of coyotes. Amazingly, she survived. nationalzoo.si.edu/Publications/Z...olfweb.cfmPersonally, I have a new respect for coyotes now. Yes wolves have actively sought to eradicate them in the areas they are now being reintroduced, and cougars prey on coyotes. As for this - "Only when a pack of wolves outnumbers coyotes do they attack; " from the article, I'd argue it is incorrect. "The other 2 bison observed being killed by wolves were both calves in late winter. One kill involved 5 yearling wolves that attacked a malnourished lone bison calf on 8 April 1997 (Table 2). That group, referred to as the Sawtooth wolves, was not a pack but a temporary affiliation of young wolves released together. Another kill involved a lone wolf, with 4 coyotes (Canis latrans) simultaneously attacking a malnourished lone bison calf on 24 March 1999. The wolf attacked the neck of the bison and the coyotes attacked a hind leg. Bites to the neck eventually killed the calf. The wolf then chased the coyotes away, but they remained 50 m away while the wolf fed on the calf. " www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/mamma...esults.htmOne would expect 4 coyotes to dominate a lone wolf, but in this instance they did not." |
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Post by Bolushi on May 26, 2023 0:36:36 GMT
Honestly wolves struggle against multiple coyotes. Here 4 small western coyotes displace a wolf from its kill if 7 dogs knew what they were doing, the wolf would either be running or dead "And even though coyotes, at about 30 pounds, are a third the size of the average wolf, they are not pushovers. Only when a pack of wolves outnumbers coyotes do they attack; when there are more coyotes, they will attack wolves. Crabtree is not aware of any coyotes killing adult wolves, but thinks they might have killed some pups. Biologists watched one scene unfold in which four coyotes attacked a wolf pup. A female wolf chased the coyotes off, but eventually they turned on her and pinned her down. She escaped, and swam across the Lamar River, where she was attacked on the other side by another pack of coyotes. Amazingly, she survived. nationalzoo.si.edu/Publications/Z...olfweb.cfmPersonally, I have a new respect for coyotes now. Yes wolves have actively sought to eradicate them in the areas they are now being reintroduced, and cougars prey on coyotes. As for this - "Only when a pack of wolves outnumbers coyotes do they attack; " from the article, I'd argue it is incorrect. "The other 2 bison observed being killed by wolves were both calves in late winter. One kill involved 5 yearling wolves that attacked a malnourished lone bison calf on 8 April 1997 (Table 2). That group, referred to as the Sawtooth wolves, was not a pack but a temporary affiliation of young wolves released together. Another kill involved a lone wolf, with 4 coyotes (Canis latrans) simultaneously attacking a malnourished lone bison calf on 24 March 1999. The wolf attacked the neck of the bison and the coyotes attacked a hind leg. Bites to the neck eventually killed the calf. The wolf then chased the coyotes away, but they remained 50 m away while the wolf fed on the calf. " www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/mamma...esults.htmOne would expect 4 coyotes to dominate a lone wolf, but in this instance they did not." Scenthounds don't know what they're doing - "2 Hunting Dogs were Killed (4-year-old female Redbone and 3-year-old female Walker trailing hounds); 4 Hunting Dogs were Injured (7-year-old male Black & Tan, 3.5-year-old male Walker/Plott, 7-year-old male Walker, and 5 year old female Walker/Redtick trailing hounds)" dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/WildlifeHabitat/wolf/dogdeps.htmlMany many many "hunting dog injured" "hunting dog killed" and all are "trailing hound". Not even a cur dog or airedale or sighthound killed. However I'm sure scenthounds are just a lot more common so there's that, but still wolves seem to have little issue killing scenthounds. This is even worse when there's more than 1 wolf, hard to bail 2 animals at once. |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2023 0:44:25 GMT
Yes I was wrong, I forgot a coyote may miserably try to fight a pack of wolves or dogs, but its not on the level of a wolf nor will it ever reach that point. Oh btw a wolf would kill 8 blueticks, and 7 plotthounds. They’ve already done so. Airedale Terriers though, im gonna say they’ll very much stand a chance They haven't done that... they've decimated packs of 5 though without a scratch so yeah it's possible depending on how shit the dogs are. However if the dogs beat up a wolf and nip it and cause the wolf to run we won't know about it either so... "the padded record" applies here. But yes a wolf could steamroll a pack like that. The pack of dogs in my scenario would butcher 1-2 wolves. Even 3, with the scenthounds distracting and nipping and giving the Airedales an opening. 1 wolf gets decimated. The point is, coyotes don't give up and neither do wolves or jackals or hyenas etc. Felines are one of the only animals that may throw in the towel on rare occasion when out in the open and assailed. Snow leopards sometimes just shut down when surrounded by Tibetan Mastiffs and the farmer, they freeze up and walk at a normal pace in the opposite direction. I'm not so sure if this is the SL not giving a shit or going into shock. Cougars, we have a video of one just breaking down in a cage and refusing to fight back. Lynxes can literally get stressed to death by a redbone barking at it too much... No I think a wolf could kill 7 scenthounds, why do you think otherwise? Its so easy, the dogs are bred to stand back and bay and bail until the human comes to kill it. And I was wrong, and yes big cats are the only ones who give up. But im saying scenthounds are the worst if were going against wolves here. They can go after coyotes, but wolves they can’t. |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2023 0:46:43 GMT
Honestly wolves struggle against multiple coyotes. Here 4 small western coyotes displace a wolf from its kill if 7 dogs knew what they were doing, the wolf would either be running or dead "And even though coyotes, at about 30 pounds, are a third the size of the average wolf, they are not pushovers. Only when a pack of wolves outnumbers coyotes do they attack; when there are more coyotes, they will attack wolves. Crabtree is not aware of any coyotes killing adult wolves, but thinks they might have killed some pups. Biologists watched one scene unfold in which four coyotes attacked a wolf pup. A female wolf chased the coyotes off, but eventually they turned on her and pinned her down. She escaped, and swam across the Lamar River, where she was attacked on the other side by another pack of coyotes. Amazingly, she survived. nationalzoo.si.edu/Publications/Z...olfweb.cfmPersonally, I have a new respect for coyotes now. Yes wolves have actively sought to eradicate them in the areas they are now being reintroduced, and cougars prey on coyotes. As for this - "Only when a pack of wolves outnumbers coyotes do they attack; " from the article, I'd argue it is incorrect. "The other 2 bison observed being killed by wolves were both calves in late winter. One kill involved 5 yearling wolves that attacked a malnourished lone bison calf on 8 April 1997 (Table 2). That group, referred to as the Sawtooth wolves, was not a pack but a temporary affiliation of young wolves released together. Another kill involved a lone wolf, with 4 coyotes (Canis latrans) simultaneously attacking a malnourished lone bison calf on 24 March 1999. The wolf attacked the neck of the bison and the coyotes attacked a hind leg. Bites to the neck eventually killed the calf. The wolf then chased the coyotes away, but they remained 50 m away while the wolf fed on the calf. " www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/mamma...esults.htmOne would expect 4 coyotes to dominate a lone wolf, but in this instance they did not." A lone wolf would not be running unless it was a Wolfhound or a Great Dane. The wolf would probably be like “why is this weird looking wolf as big as me, i need to get outta here.” I think Airedales would win but to get a wolf running is a different story. No wolf is scared of a Scenthound, more the exact opposite. There are cases of hounds baying and howling and wolves show up. |
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ophio
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Post by ophio on May 26, 2023 1:47:55 GMT
Honestly wolves struggle against multiple coyotes. Here 4 small western coyotes displace a wolf from its kill if 7 dogs knew what they were doing, the wolf would either be running or dead "And even though coyotes, at about 30 pounds, are a third the size of the average wolf, they are not pushovers. Only when a pack of wolves outnumbers coyotes do they attack; when there are more coyotes, they will attack wolves. Crabtree is not aware of any coyotes killing adult wolves, but thinks they might have killed some pups. Biologists watched one scene unfold in which four coyotes attacked a wolf pup. A female wolf chased the coyotes off, but eventually they turned on her and pinned her down. She escaped, and swam across the Lamar River, where she was attacked on the other side by another pack of coyotes. Amazingly, she survived. nationalzoo.si.edu/Publications/Z...olfweb.cfmPersonally, I have a new respect for coyotes now. Yes wolves have actively sought to eradicate them in the areas they are now being reintroduced, and cougars prey on coyotes. As for this - "Only when a pack of wolves outnumbers coyotes do they attack; " from the article, I'd argue it is incorrect. "The other 2 bison observed being killed by wolves were both calves in late winter. One kill involved 5 yearling wolves that attacked a malnourished lone bison calf on 8 April 1997 (Table 2). That group, referred to as the Sawtooth wolves, was not a pack but a temporary affiliation of young wolves released together. Another kill involved a lone wolf, with 4 coyotes (Canis latrans) simultaneously attacking a malnourished lone bison calf on 24 March 1999. The wolf attacked the neck of the bison and the coyotes attacked a hind leg. Bites to the neck eventually killed the calf. The wolf then chased the coyotes away, but they remained 50 m away while the wolf fed on the calf. " www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/mamma...esults.htmOne would expect 4 coyotes to dominate a lone wolf, but in this instance they did not." A lone wolf would not be running unless it was a Wolfhound or a Great Dane. The wolf would probably be like “why is this weird looking wolf as big as me, i need to get outta here.” I think Airedales would win but to get a wolf running is a different story. No wolf is scared of a Scenthound, more the exact opposite. There are cases of hounds baying and howling and wolves show up. I mean coyotes can get single wolves running. But yea multiple wolves turns the tables for sure |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2023 2:03:03 GMT
A lone wolf would not be running unless it was a Wolfhound or a Great Dane. The wolf would probably be like “why is this weird looking wolf as big as me, i need to get outta here.” I think Airedales would win but to get a wolf running is a different story. No wolf is scared of a Scenthound, more the exact opposite. There are cases of hounds baying and howling and wolves show up. I mean coyotes can get single wolves running. But yea multiple wolves turns the tables for sure What you are saying is not true. Sure, 4 coyotes against one wolf, is gonna make the wolf outnumbered. That doesn’t mean the wolf is gonna sit there and die. Also, you are comparing coyotes and Scenthounds. A Scenthound is a subspecies of wolf bred by humans to suit their hunting style. A coyote is more an off-set of jackals like the wolf. Except the coyote is still a small opportunist. The wolf is slowly pushing towards being like the true hunting dogs, awds and dholes. |
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ophio
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Post by ophio on May 26, 2023 2:39:46 GMT
I mean coyotes can get single wolves running. But yea multiple wolves turns the tables for sure What you are saying is not true. Sure, 4 coyotes against one wolf, is gonna make the wolf outnumbered. That doesn’t mean the wolf is gonna sit there and die. Also, you are comparing coyotes and Scenthounds. A Scenthound is a subspecies of wolf bred by humans to suit their hunting style. A coyote is more an off-set of jackals like the wolf. Except the coyote is still a small opportunist. The wolf is slowly pushing towards being like the true hunting dogs, awds and dholes. Yea the wolf isn't gonna just sit there and die. It'll run away against 4 coyotes were |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2023 4:13:42 GMT
What you are saying is not true. Sure, 4 coyotes against one wolf, is gonna make the wolf outnumbered. That doesn’t mean the wolf is gonna sit there and die. Also, you are comparing coyotes and Scenthounds. A Scenthound is a subspecies of wolf bred by humans to suit their hunting style. A coyote is more an off-set of jackals like the wolf. Except the coyote is still a small opportunist. The wolf is slowly pushing towards being like the true hunting dogs, awds and dholes. Yea the wolf isn't gonna just sit there and die. It'll run away against 4 coyotes were Funnily enough the video you sent didn’t feature the wolf running away, it ran a tiny bit and then stood its ground. |
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ophio
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Post by ophio on May 26, 2023 4:39:36 GMT
Yea the wolf isn't gonna just sit there and die. It'll run away against 4 coyotes were Funnily enough the video you sent didn’t feature the wolf running away, it ran a tiny bit and then stood its ground. If you watched till the 7 minute mark, the wolf clearly retreated from the group of coyotes. The coyotes clearly won this interaction by leading the wolf away from its kill so it couldn't eat and then drag it around a bit before finally making it leave. All without taking no damage |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2023 22:05:13 GMT
Funnily enough the video you sent didn’t feature the wolf running away, it ran a tiny bit and then stood its ground. If you watched till the 7 minute mark, the wolf clearly retreated from the group of coyotes. The coyotes clearly won this interaction by leading the wolf away from its kill so it couldn't eat and then drag it around a bit before finally making it leave. All without taking no damage I don’t get anyone who makes this argument but here we go again. The coyotes won this interaction because its a lone wolf thats not interested and is ignoring them. A lone wolf will shred 2 to 3 coyotes, at 4 its less they couldn’t beat them but they weren’t interested. Going against 4 coyotes is just gonna get you injured in the long run. A wolf catches one coyote, the rest tear the hindstrings of the wolf. Its not worth it unless completely necessary. Which is why the wolf in this video seemed to only charge at the coyotes when they got a little too close during when it was scavenging. Theres no getting injured from something that isn’t interested. Even the Great Pyrenees who fought off 8 coyotes and managed to survive ended up getting injuries. I do not like Great Pyrenees but that was impressive. Injuries are worse than death, they hinder and hurt something but don’t actually kill it. Again, not worth it. And this does not mean anything even after everything else if the coyotes have numbers. There are videos of large packs of African Wild Dogs or large clans of Spotted Hyenas going after lone or injured lions, but nobody denies that a lone lion would shred both of them in an instant if the African Wild Dog didn’t have its tight-knit ant colony pack or the Spotted Hyena didn’t have its clan. I don’t get coyote fans like these. Not just coyote fans, as I have seen a lot of them who don’t argue this. I mean the ones that love to downplay the wolf and uplift the coyote. And they always have some weird excuse like “5 harass lone wolves!” or “coyotes are at least better adapted to cities than wolves!” when all of this is just because of their evolution. Coyotes can survive drifting off into a city every once in a while, wolves can’t or they face massive persecution or get chased off. And of course 5 coyotes can harass a lone wolf, especially in that video where the wolf was not even interested. But this doesn’t prove anything much nor does it change my view on anything. |
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ophio
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Post by ophio on May 29, 2023 0:56:39 GMT
If you watched till the 7 minute mark, the wolf clearly retreated from the group of coyotes. The coyotes clearly won this interaction by leading the wolf away from its kill so it couldn't eat and then drag it around a bit before finally making it leave. All without taking no damage I don’t get anyone who makes this argument but here we go again. The coyotes won this interaction because its a lone wolf thats not interested and is ignoring them. A lone wolf will shred 2 to 3 coyotes, at 4 its less they couldn’t beat them but they weren’t interested. Going against 4 coyotes is just gonna get you injured in the long run. A wolf catches one coyote, the rest tear the hindstrings of the wolf. Its not worth it unless completely necessary. Which is why the wolf in this video seemed to only charge at the coyotes when they got a little too close during when it was scavenging. Theres no getting injured from something that isn’t interested. Even the Great Pyrenees who fought off 8 coyotes and managed to survive ended up getting injuries. I do not like Great Pyrenees but that was impressive. Injuries are worse than death, they hinder and hurt something but don’t actually kill it. Again, not worth it. And this does not mean anything even after everything else if the coyotes have numbers. There are videos of large packs of African Wild Dogs or large clans of Spotted Hyenas going after lone or injured lions, but nobody denies that a lone lion would shred both of them in an instant if the African Wild Dog didn’t have its tight-knit ant colony pack or the Spotted Hyena didn’t have its clan. I don’t get coyote fans like these. Not just coyote fans, as I have seen a lot of them who don’t argue this. I mean the ones that love to downplay the wolf and uplift the coyote. And they always have some weird excuse like “5 harass lone wolves!” or “coyotes are at least better adapted to cities than wolves!” when all of this is just because of their evolution. Coyotes can survive drifting off into a city every once in a while, wolves can’t or they face massive persecution or get chased off. And of course 5 coyotes can harass a lone wolf, especially in that video where the wolf was not even interested. But this doesn’t prove anything much nor does it change my view on anything. I don't think a wolf can easily catch a coyote. A wolf is faster in a straight line but a coyote is more agile and will lose the wolf by making quick turns. Two coyotes will harrass a determined wolf until it gives up. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2023 0:59:34 GMT
I don’t get anyone who makes this argument but here we go again. The coyotes won this interaction because its a lone wolf thats not interested and is ignoring them. A lone wolf will shred 2 to 3 coyotes, at 4 its less they couldn’t beat them but they weren’t interested. Going against 4 coyotes is just gonna get you injured in the long run. A wolf catches one coyote, the rest tear the hindstrings of the wolf. Its not worth it unless completely necessary. Which is why the wolf in this video seemed to only charge at the coyotes when they got a little too close during when it was scavenging. Theres no getting injured from something that isn’t interested. Even the Great Pyrenees who fought off 8 coyotes and managed to survive ended up getting injuries. I do not like Great Pyrenees but that was impressive. Injuries are worse than death, they hinder and hurt something but don’t actually kill it. Again, not worth it. And this does not mean anything even after everything else if the coyotes have numbers. There are videos of large packs of African Wild Dogs or large clans of Spotted Hyenas going after lone or injured lions, but nobody denies that a lone lion would shred both of them in an instant if the African Wild Dog didn’t have its tight-knit ant colony pack or the Spotted Hyena didn’t have its clan. I don’t get coyote fans like these. Not just coyote fans, as I have seen a lot of them who don’t argue this. I mean the ones that love to downplay the wolf and uplift the coyote. And they always have some weird excuse like “5 harass lone wolves!” or “coyotes are at least better adapted to cities than wolves!” when all of this is just because of their evolution. Coyotes can survive drifting off into a city every once in a while, wolves can’t or they face massive persecution or get chased off. And of course 5 coyotes can harass a lone wolf, especially in that video where the wolf was not even interested. But this doesn’t prove anything much nor does it change my view on anything. I don't think a wolf can easily catch a coyote. A wolf is faster in a straight line but a coyote is more agile and will lose the wolf by making quick turns. Two coyotes will harrass a determined wolf until it gives up. Well yes, coyotes are agile and fast. Primarily due to how wolves are large and coyotes are small. Two coyotes can harass a determined wolf until it gives up, but thats not happening, nor will it ever happen. A wolf isn’t gonna just give up when it sees two coyotes. Thats never happened, and nor was the wolf giving up in that video. That wolf just wasn’t interested in those coyotes. |
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