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Post by Hardcastle on May 18, 2023 13:50:01 GMT
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Post by Hardcastle on May 18, 2023 14:08:43 GMT
I've become really disinterested in "who wins a fight to the death" and much more interested in "how the fight plays out in reality". Given that... the wolf would make the hyena look silly. The hyena lands NOTHING. HOWEVER, if there's a carcass at stake, the hyena definitely wins it.
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ophio
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Posts: 230
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Post by ophio on May 18, 2023 14:20:09 GMT
I've become really disinterested in "who wins a fight to the death" and much more interested in "how the fight plays out in reality". Given that... the wolf would make the hyena look silly. The hyena lands NOTHING. HOWEVER, if there's a carcass at stake, the hyena definitely wins it. Agreed. I think wolf chases hyena for a bit and tries to get some nips in. Hyena whips it's snakey neck around while eating the carcass. Neither land anything of significance and hyena leaves after eating half the carcass. So tie i guess? If wolf is stupid, and rushes in it's getting overpowered but wolves aren't stupid so it's probably just gonna run a few laps around the hyena before either one gives up. I don't think either one really gets hurt considering the only animals in the savanna that really are able to hurt hyenas (male lions and lionesses) need to overpower hyenas first and hyenas are more robust than wolves. Black ice did say the wolf would get the neck but if the hyenas were that slow, they'd be murked by leopards in ambush or by packs of wild dogs all the time which isn't the case. Hyenas may be slow but their durability allows them to focus on protecting the neck which is easy because it's right next to it's huge skull I do think it's worth noting that every time canids overlap with hyenas hyenas are clearly higher on the pyramid and the canids are kinda pathetic? I guess african wild dogs are good predators but they really can't do much against rivals |
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Post by Hardcastle on May 18, 2023 14:34:57 GMT
African wild dogs are really doing it tough to an unnatural level at the moment. Their packs are like 7 or 8 individuals, when they are supposed to actually be 50-80 individuals. It's on record that they were in the late 1800s and even into the mid 1900s. They're designed to live in packs with those kind of numbers, and when they do they comfortably compete with spotted hyenas and lions, in fact they likely pressurised lions and spotted hyenas into becoming social, against their primal natures. In the old days lions, spotted hyenas and awds were equals all competing at the highest level with mixed results on any given day. AWDs are so undermined and destabilised by their endangerment that they actually can't recover no matter what humans do, because their packs are too weak and they are vulnerable to lions and leopards, which is obviously not how it is supposed to be.
The same is true for dholes and tigers and leopards. The dhole is built to fully handle itself and compete with tigers and leopards, even be dominant over them (and they still display such behaviour in a confused way, with leopards and tigers also confused and overly respectful) but it's recent endangered status compromises its ability to live how it is designed to live.
Basically humans started the difficulties with dholes and AWDs, but nature is finishing them off because they can't rebuild the huge packs they are evolved to live in.
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ophio
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Post by ophio on May 18, 2023 14:43:45 GMT
That's all well and good, however ten awds literally cannot move a single small spotted hyena. It's telling that despite the similar prey size and macropredatory adaptations these dogs cannot reach the size of European and North American wolves.
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Post by Hardcastle on May 18, 2023 15:13:17 GMT
They're totally schooling it's stupid ass?? I don't understand what the problem is on their side?
I've also seen videos where 7 AWDs actually do school packs of spotted hyenas which outnumber them, which is crazy, but they did so by strategically splitting the hyenas and isolating an individual to get worked over by a few AWDs while the other hyenas were distracted by a few more. AWDs are far far far far far far superior to spotted hyenas at social cohesion and pack warfare, but they did evolve to work in huge packs which are no longer possible because they're endangered. Spotted hyenas, fundamentally solitary animals like lions are also, started forming packs to deal with these insane massive hordes of AWDs, but they aren't good at it by any means compared to AWDs, it was just their best strategy to "stop the bleeding".
Make no mistake that before shit went to hell AWDs could comfortably compete with spotted hyenas and lions, they were likely slightly above them, they were nomadic rovers who moved into territories and terrorised the locals before moving on. They likely made the local lions and hyenas gulp also. What we see now is not how it's supposed to be. In fact you can say that about absolutely every continent, we aren't seeing the ecosystem for what it was designed to be. This isn't like "there used to be dinosaurs" or whatever, no the current ecosystem is supposed to be a certain way and it isn't. That's true everywhere, Africa is less bad than most, but the apex predator dynamics are all skewed off and AWDs being underpowered is a big part of that.
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ophio
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Post by ophio on May 18, 2023 15:24:58 GMT
They're totally schooling it's stupid ass?? I don't understand what the problem is on their side? I've also seen videos where 7 AWDs actually do school packs of spotted hyenas which outnumber them, which is crazy, but they did so by strategically splitting the hyenas and isolating an individual to get worked over by a few AWDs while the other hyenas were distracted by a few more. AWDs are far far far far far far superior to spotted hyenas at social cohesion and pack warfare, but they did evolve to work in huge packs which are no longer possible because they're endangered. Spotted hyenas, fundamentally solitary animals like lions are also, started forming packs to deal with these insane massive hordes of AWDs, but they aren't good at it by any means compared to AWDs, it was just their best strategy to "stop the bleeding". Make no mistake that before shit went to hell AWDs could comfortably compete with spotted hyenas and lions, they were likely slightly above them, they were nomadic rovers who moved into territories and terrorised the locals before moving on. They likely made the local lions and hyenas gulp also. What we see now is not how it's supposed to be. In fact you can say that about absolutely every continent, we aren't seeing the ecosystem for what it was designed to be. This isn't like "there used to be dinosaurs" or whatever, no the current ecosystem is supposed to be a certain way and it isn't. That's true everywhere, Africa is less bad than most, but the apex predator dynamics are all skewed off and AWDs being underpowered is a big part of that. They aren't doing damage and aren't pushing it away, if there was a carcass, the hyena would've leisurely eaten it's full before waddling away. The wild dogs can't dissuade the hyenas in any way whatsoever. Here just two heynas steal a carcass from a large pack of wild dogs. And frankly lone wolves consistently lose their kills to coyote packs too. Packs are just hard to deal with "And even though coyotes, at about 30 pounds, are a third the size of the average wolf, they are not pushovers. Only when a pack of wolves outnumbers coyotes do they attack; when there are more coyotes, they will attack wolves. Crabtree is not aware of any coyotes killing adult wolves, but thinks they might have killed some pups.
Biologists watched one scene unfold in which four coyotes attacked a wolf pup. A female wolf chased the coyotes off, but eventually they turned on her and pinned her down. She escaped, and swam across the Lamar River, where she was attacked on the other side by another pack of coyotes. Amazingly, she survived." |
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Post by Bolushi on May 18, 2023 18:02:11 GMT
They're totally schooling it's stupid ass?? I don't understand what the problem is on their side? I've also seen videos where 7 AWDs actually do school packs of spotted hyenas which outnumber them, which is crazy, but they did so by strategically splitting the hyenas and isolating an individual to get worked over by a few AWDs while the other hyenas were distracted by a few more. AWDs are far far far far far far superior to spotted hyenas at social cohesion and pack warfare, but they did evolve to work in huge packs which are no longer possible because they're endangered. Spotted hyenas, fundamentally solitary animals like lions are also, started forming packs to deal with these insane massive hordes of AWDs, but they aren't good at it by any means compared to AWDs, it was just their best strategy to "stop the bleeding". Make no mistake that before shit went to hell AWDs could comfortably compete with spotted hyenas and lions, they were likely slightly above them, they were nomadic rovers who moved into territories and terrorised the locals before moving on. They likely made the local lions and hyenas gulp also. What we see now is not how it's supposed to be. In fact you can say that about absolutely every continent, we aren't seeing the ecosystem for what it was designed to be. This isn't like "there used to be dinosaurs" or whatever, no the current ecosystem is supposed to be a certain way and it isn't. That's true everywhere, Africa is less bad than most, but the apex predator dynamics are all skewed off and AWDs being underpowered is a big part of that. They aren't doing damage and aren't pushing it away, if there was a carcass, the hyena would've leisurely eaten it's full before waddling away. The wild dogs can't dissuade the hyenas in any way whatsoever. Here just two heynas steal a carcass from a large pack of wild dogs. And frankly lone wolves consistently lose their kills to coyote packs too. Packs are just hard to deal with "And even though coyotes, at about 30 pounds, are a third the size of the average wolf, they are not pushovers. Only when a pack of wolves outnumbers coyotes do they attack; when there are more coyotes, they will attack wolves. Crabtree is not aware of any coyotes killing adult wolves, but thinks they might have killed some pups.
Biologists watched one scene unfold in which four coyotes attacked a wolf pup. A female wolf chased the coyotes off, but eventually they turned on her and pinned her down. She escaped, and swam across the Lamar River, where she was attacked on the other side by another pack of coyotes. Amazingly, she survived." What did I just read? |
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ophio
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Post by ophio on May 18, 2023 18:04:04 GMT
They aren't doing damage and aren't pushing it away, if there was a carcass, the hyena would've leisurely eaten it's full before waddling away. The wild dogs can't dissuade the hyenas in any way whatsoever. Here just two heynas steal a carcass from a large pack of wild dogs. And frankly lone wolves consistently lose their kills to coyote packs too. Packs are just hard to deal with "And even though coyotes, at about 30 pounds, are a third the size of the average wolf, they are not pushovers. Only when a pack of wolves outnumbers coyotes do they attack; when there are more coyotes, they will attack wolves. Crabtree is not aware of any coyotes killing adult wolves, but thinks they might have killed some pups.
Biologists watched one scene unfold in which four coyotes attacked a wolf pup. A female wolf chased the coyotes off, but eventually they turned on her and pinned her down. She escaped, and swam across the Lamar River, where she was attacked on the other side by another pack of coyotes. Amazingly, she survived." What did I just read? wolves look just as bad against multiple coyotes as hyenas do against multiple awds |
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Post by Bolushi on May 18, 2023 18:06:00 GMT
A person named Crabtree exists?
Crabtree should shut the fuck up and study coconut crabs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2023 18:22:50 GMT
A person named Crabtree exists? Crabtree should shut the fuck up and study coconut crabs. I know lol. It's almost as ridiculous as Tristan! Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2023 18:29:20 GMT
They're totally schooling it's stupid ass?? I don't understand what the problem is on their side? I've also seen videos where 7 AWDs actually do school packs of spotted hyenas which outnumber them, which is crazy, but they did so by strategically splitting the hyenas and isolating an individual to get worked over by a few AWDs while the other hyenas were distracted by a few more. AWDs are far far far far far far superior to spotted hyenas at social cohesion and pack warfare, but they did evolve to work in huge packs which are no longer possible because they're endangered. Spotted hyenas, fundamentally solitary animals like lions are also, started forming packs to deal with these insane massive hordes of AWDs, but they aren't good at it by any means compared to AWDs, it was just their best strategy to "stop the bleeding". Make no mistake that before shit went to hell AWDs could comfortably compete with spotted hyenas and lions, they were likely slightly above them, they were nomadic rovers who moved into territories and terrorised the locals before moving on. They likely made the local lions and hyenas gulp also. What we see now is not how it's supposed to be. In fact you can say that about absolutely every continent, we aren't seeing the ecosystem for what it was designed to be. This isn't like "there used to be dinosaurs" or whatever, no the current ecosystem is supposed to be a certain way and it isn't. That's true everywhere, Africa is less bad than most, but the apex predator dynamics are all skewed off and AWDs being underpowered is a big part of that. They aren't doing damage and aren't pushing it away, if there was a carcass, the hyena would've leisurely eaten it's full before waddling away. The wild dogs can't dissuade the hyenas in any way whatsoever. Here just two heynas steal a carcass from a large pack of wild dogs. And frankly lone wolves consistently lose their kills to coyote packs too. Packs are just hard to deal with "And even though coyotes, at about 30 pounds, are a third the size of the average wolf, they are not pushovers. Only when a pack of wolves outnumbers coyotes do they attack; when there are more coyotes, they will attack wolves. Crabtree is not aware of any coyotes killing adult wolves, but thinks they might have killed some pups.
Biologists watched one scene unfold in which four coyotes attacked a wolf pup. A female wolf chased the coyotes off, but eventually they turned on her and pinned her down. She escaped, and swam across the Lamar River, where she was attacked on the other side by another pack of coyotes. Amazingly, she survived." A Great Pyrenees survived being attacked by a “pack” of 8 coyotes, and given the breed thats impressive. That dog did not kill those coyotes, thats what they say but thats not true, just fended them off. That wolf in the video near 3 coyotes fended them off easily too. Whether they can kill or fend them off are two different things. |
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Post by Bolushi on May 18, 2023 23:14:10 GMT
A person named Crabtree exists? Crabtree should shut the fuck up and study coconut crabs. I know lol. It's almost as ridiculous as Tristan! Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk You 'gon die... |
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Post by Hardcastle on May 19, 2023 8:52:18 GMT
What hyenas DO have, their genuine strengths are- durability, and stubbornness. So yeah they typically win the carcass over basically everything, including lions, definitely leopards and wild dogs. But the actual physical altercation between the wild dogs and the spotted hyenas typically, always, involved the hyena never laying a tooth on the dogs. They run rings around it and bite it all over and it just plants its ass and opens its mouth until eventually the wild dogs mosey off. That's pretty much what I said will happen with the wolf also. The hyena is gonna be the stubborn one who "tanks" the damage in any kind of fight and just waits until the wolf leaves, but it will not achieve any offense whatsoever. One hyena is pretty much too slow and clumsy to get its mouth on any wild predator. They can circle something in numbers and get bites in, and maybe they will get a bite in while being grappled by a lion or leopard, snake their neck around and take a chomp. But on the feet on open ground they can't really do any offense, their footwork is total dogshit and all they can do is tank their opponents assault. At this they are great, and that is what they will do against a wolf. Tank its attack until it moseys off.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2023 10:39:13 GMT
African wild dogs are really doing it tough to an unnatural level at the moment. Their packs are like 7 or 8 individuals, when they are supposed to actually be 50-80 individuals. It's on record that they were in the late 1800s and even into the mid 1900s. They're designed to live in packs with those kind of numbers, and when they do they comfortably compete with spotted hyenas and lions, in fact they likely pressurised lions and spotted hyenas into becoming social, against their primal natures. In the old days lions, spotted hyenas and awds were equals all competing at the highest level with mixed results on any given day. AWDs are so undermined and destabilised by their endangerment that they actually can't recover no matter what humans do, because their packs are too weak and they are vulnerable to lions and leopards, which is obviously not how it is supposed to be. The same is true for dholes and tigers and leopards. The dhole is built to fully handle itself and compete with tigers and leopards, even be dominant over them (and they still display such behaviour in a confused way, with leopards and tigers also confused and overly respectful) but it's recent endangered status compromises its ability to live how it is designed to live. Basically humans started the difficulties with dholes and AWDs, but nature is finishing them off because they can't rebuild the huge packs they are evolved to live in. Fuck humans, dickholes and AWDs have been doomed. Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk |
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